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  1. #1
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    Default V6 tb boost pressure.

    I've always assumed that the V6 turbo ran with fairly low boost pressure, but seeing as its only a 2.0L lump yet still makes 200bhp or thereabouts it seems to me that it can't be that low pressure.

    So what boost does this engine run, and it is controlled in a similar way to the Q4s or the 75 Turbo, Pierburg valve etc?

    Cheers
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    GTV TB runs standard with ~0,8bar with a short overboost of +0.3bar (so max 1,1bar). The ECU's are the Bosch Motronic ML4.1 + Bosch EZK212 and turbo pressure is controlled by the waste-gate that's actuated by the pierburg valve that on its turn is ECU-controlled. I presume that's similar to other 'older' TB Alfa's.

    My GTV has been chiptuned by Squadra Tuning (NL): boost is set to ~1.1bar with the same +0.3bar overboost when booting it, my TB is touching 1.5bar @ overboost at times This chiptuning should yield +30HP (230HP max) and +60Nm (max 330Nm).

    Cheers

  3. #3
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    That sounds remarkably similar to the Q4, even down to the base boost and overboost levels.

    I don't know where I got the idea the V6 was a low pressure turbo motor.

    Does the GTV Map sensor read above 1.5bar? and how are your head bolts doing?

    Be nice to see your car in the forum garage.

    Cheers.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    AFAIK there is no boost pressure sensor anywhere, I assume it just follows a mapping of pierburg PWM actuation vs. trottle position/RPM -which might just be two settings of the pierburg; PWM normal boost and PWM overboost
    Up to now I'm not too impressed by the technical complexity of the Alfa turbo-control electrics but if there a less parts, less can break down...right?

    I do know the ECU looks at the air-flow meter (for GTV TB that flap connected to a potentiometer, no air-mass flowmeter); if that reads a too high flow, it thinks 'too high boost' and cuts the boost down via the pierburg.

    And headbolts are doing fine...been running like this for 2 years now, although I do have a slipping clutch when overboost really kicks in @3000RPM -but only in winter with an outside temperature of <10?C. As there is no true 'measured boost' control, as air is colder my turbo has more boost...clutch doesn't slip in summer

    Cheers, and I'll get some pics up soon -I just got here!

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    No MAP sensor or control, Eeek! Seems to be a step back from the Q4.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    Consensus is that standard boost is 0.9 bar. Overboost 1,1. Confirmed with boost meters.

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    Another assumption I have is that the engine uses a single turbo, doesn't this make the exhaust manifold a little complicated or is the exhaust mounted quite a distance away from the engine?

    Either way is less than ideal I would have said, can't be much space under the bonnet of a V6 tb GTV. Any chance of some pics of the engine bay.

    Cheers
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    Borrowed a couple....



    Let's take a look at the bottom to
    In a world full of compromise...
    ...some don't.
    ___________________________
    Opel Astra Sports Tourer 110HP 2017
    Alfa 147 1.6 16V 120HP
    Alfa 155 Q4 2.0 16V turbo

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brul(tm) View Post
    Blimey, no wonder the sump is finned, its got exhaust pipe on 3 sides. I suppose it helps getting the oil temp up in the winter.

    Do GTVs have an oil temp gauge? Wonder what standard oil temp is?
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  10. #10
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    I'd love to take one these for a spin.

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

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    So would I, just a shame I don't really fit inside the cockpit very well. Not much headroom as I remember.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    Phase 2+3's have a slightly higher seat than the P1's, so this might help with little headroom. Don't have an original sunroof like mine, that does help 'lighten' things up, but cuts headroom by ~2cm

    There's no oil-temperature gauge as standard, I mounted an oil temperature sensor with adaptor plate in between oilfilter and engine. I actually took the normal coolant temperature guage, but through a switch I can toggle between the coolant and oil temperature on the original coolant gauge. Still have to really check if it is measuring right, but if it is correctly measuring now -oil temperatures of 110-120?C are 'normal' And oil reaches 100?C in about 6 miles...

    Ow and that GTV underside is actually my GTV's underside afaik all V6's have finned sumps, actually all Alfa's we've had in the family have had finned sumps -don't know better that all Alfa's have fins?

    On the bottom view, I now have a sport-cat fitted and 'small' Alfisti middle damper. On this pic it's still original cat + open pipe on the spot where the middle-exhaust damper should be (previous owner placed that). Once I fitted the sport-cat, idle gave too much noise + things ratteling in the interiour, hence the 'small' middle damper now I'm now thinking of getting the Alfaholics middle-damper, just to tune it slighly down more.

    Cheers
    Martijn
    Last edited by SpeakerDocktor; 26-09-11 at 21:19.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for that info, I tend to steer away from cars with sunroofs due to the headroom issue. Mind you it not a problem in the Disco. There is enough headroom in there to wear a tophat!!

    Sounds like the V6 tb runs with pretty hot oil as standard. Even out on track in the middle of summer my Q4s oil temp didn't get above 100c. How big is the oil cooler on the GTV?

    Have you got any video of the car with the new exhaust. Be interested to hear what a V6 turbo sounds like under load.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    Don't have a video of my own GTV, but this one http://youtu.be/_kTRFf79Eqk sounds awfully close to mine.

    Cheers
    S.H.I.T. - Self Healing Italian Technology

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    Not usually a fan of white cars but that one looks great (apart from the steering wheel).

    Are the grill vents (just under the bonnet line) standard on all GTVs? Can't say I've noticed them before.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

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    Yes, those grill vents are standard for the phase 1&2s. With the facelift of the p3 styling (>2003) the whole nose changed and those specific grill vents were gone.

    Cheers
    S.H.I.T. - Self Healing Italian Technology

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    Have you got any video of the car with the new exhaust. Be interested to hear what a V6 turbo sounds like under load.
    Hi, just joined this forum. I have an alfa 164 v6 turbo. These videos are of the car with a new rvs exhaust system from downpipe tot the end :-)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKFA2dnCFTc"]Alfa 164 V6 Turbo Spettacolo Sportivo 2011 Part 1 - YouTube[/ame] inside -- nice from 9.20 to 10.05
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfzBHsfHFwQ"]Alfa 164 V6 Turbo duplex exhaust EPS - YouTube[/ame] exhaust
    Last edited by MikeC164; 11-10-11 at 13:31.

  18. #18
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    Now I like that sound, less harsh than the normally aspirated V6, sounds almost like a vintage race car.
    I bet the 164 has a little more space under the bonnet too.

    Oh and welcome to the Forum.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    Now I like that sound, less harsh than the normally aspirated V6, sounds almost like a vintage race car.
    I bet the 164 has a little more space under the bonnet too.

    Oh and welcome to the Forum.
    Thanks :-)

    Yep, got some space left.. Few weeks replacing the intercooler for a stronger waterintercooler Should provide some extra horses!

    http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2...fa164bella.jpg
    http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9062/20110608006.jpg
    http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4392/20110608010.jpg
    http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9859/20110426005.jpg

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC164 View Post
    Few weeks replacing the intercooler for a stronger waterintercooler
    Do you mean you've got a chargecooler? Air to water cooler?

    Be interested to see how you install it.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  21. #21
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    Yes indeed all the parts arrived. The IC, some adjustment parts, waterpump ford focus RS, waterreservoir,oilradiator saab 9-5 used as radiator for the IC and some small parts. Starting to build it in week or so. Ill post some photos

    gr Mike

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    Default Oil radiator

    To keep the oil from heating up, 2x larger oilcooler placed in the wind:

    http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2386/20111016013.jpg

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC164 View Post
    To keep the oil from heating up, 2x larger oilcooler placed in the wind:
    Does it make much difference to the oil temp? And does the 164 have a similar exhaust setup to the GTV?
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  24. #24
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    Welcome, Mike!
    My first impression listening that sound was something like "ouuuuch, this car realy hurts". And the Milanos...

    Great 164 and I see a lot of care, congrats.

    Cheers,
    Cristian.
    Alfa Romeo 155 Q4 WB '95
    Alfa Romeo per sempre !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    Does it make much difference to the oil temp? And does the 164 have a similar exhaust setup to the GTV?
    Yeah, makes a huge difference, especially on track. Cools down 30degreesC compared to the previous oilcooler.. It's a good and safe base to start increasing power/turboboost now. :-) Looking at the pic of the gtv above, I'd say the exhaust setup is exactly the same . Not 100% sure though..

    Thanks Cristian!

    An old vid 0-100 (before new exhaust system):

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDYCEgoihg8"]Alfa 164 V6 Turbo 0-100 - YouTube[/ame]

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