Balancer Belts, Bearings and Tensioner

[AlfaJack]

Next issue, what does the timing mark on the water pump look like so I can set the rear balance shaft? I can not seem to find it. There is a small ridge that is about 8mm wide, is this supposed to be it?

[AlfaJack]

Job now done and thanks for all the help. I think the cam belt is tensioned correctly but of course I do not have the special tools for it. The longest part free of the belt has a 90 degree turn by hand but its difficult to get in there to get a good gripping on it. Not a lot of deflection between the cam wheels (which I swapped for the later ones)

[Juan AR155Q4]

Job now done and thanks for all the help. I think the cam belt is tensioned correctly but of course I do not have the special tools for it. The longest part free of the belt has a 90 degree turn by hand but its difficult to get in there to get a good gripping on it. Not a lot of deflection between the cam wheels (which I swapped for the later ones)

If you can turn it 90 degree easily you'll have no problem.

How did you solved the countershaft timing? I can't remember if it should be aligned with a bolt from the water pump.

[AlfaJack]

I got it confirmed by the Evocorner forum, you set to TDC and the rear points to 6 o'clock - there is a mark on the water pump but its a bit tricky to see.

[jimnielsen]

AlfaJack - I want to change the timing belt and balance belt and associated 'bits' on my Q4.

1. How hard is this job?
2. Are the set of parts in the pic (from Walkers) the right ones
3. Do i need anything else?

.. what about these onnes from Ebay - a lot cheaper.. but is it the right stuff??

ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANCIA-DELTA-I...QQcmdZViewItem


ebay # is 230221349194

[WhizzMan]

Depending on your mechanics skills, it could be a moderately easy job, but it's a lot of work. Basically, you have to remove the exhaust, drive axle to the back, the front subframe and a lot of "smaller" parts before you can get to the timing belt itself. I would suggest you read the service (workshop) manual regarding this operation before you decide to try it yourself. You will need special tools to set the tension on the belt. I have no idea if the eBay kit is the correct set, I tend to take no risks with parts like this and order original, even if the price is much higher. I would seriously consider getting a new water pump as well, while you're at it.

[jimnielsen]

well, I changed the clutch in my Q4 - is it harder than that?

jim.

[AlfaJack]

Basically, you have to remove the exhaust, drive axle to the back, the front subframe

I did not remove any of these parts, I did not see any need to either as they are not in the way.

I would seriously consider getting a new water pump as well, while you're at it.

That may be a good idea as the bearing on mine broke up a couple of years ago and you have to remove a fair amount to replace it.

As for the job itself, I can write up a walk through, will try and do it tonight. I would like comments on it though in case I miss a bit.

From seeing the work you have done in the past it should be pretty easy for you. I did not use any tensioning tools, just went on feel.

A clutch I am sure is a more involved and heavier job.

That kit has the essentials you need - its what I changed - I paid ?136 from http://www.alternativeautos.co.uk/ - I think OEM is the safest bet with these engine.

If you want to go further then as suggested you could add a water pump, air con belt, power steering belt and the alternator/water pump belt.

[wrinx]

Basically, you have to remove the exhaust, drive axle to the back, the front subframe and a lot of "smaller" parts before you can get to the timing belt itself.

Err...why?

Just remove the timing belt cover and it should all be there...

Sounds more like a clutch job!

wrinx

[jimnielsen]

Thanks, Alfajack - I could really use the walkthrough. In the manual that I have (from this site) the procedure is outlined on page 1-100 of the Q4 engine manual - but this is doing with with the engine out of the car. Is there a manual that describes the process of doing it "in situ" - as access looks tight?

When you say "oem" do you mean to say that the parts from Walkers are not OEM ones? I have to get the stuff from someone who is willing to ship it to me in Australia - so it sort of narrows the field. (mind you, I'll be in London for a week in a few weeks, so maybe I could take some timing belts back in my hand luggage if I had the correct Alfa part numbers sorted?

I think I will leave the other belts as I am going to removed the AC compressor when I have a chance, and also I'll fit an electric water pump if the original one fails.

I really appreciate your help.

cheers, JimN~

[AlfaJack]

Taking bits home with you might be a good option. Where are you staying? On business etc?

As for an engine in-place timing belt change manual, here you go: http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/tech_pdfs/timing_belt.pdf
I am sure its on Steves site, not sure where though.

Access is a bit tight but there is worse out there (Fiat Coupe 20vT)

The eBay kit is non-OEM, too cheap IMO. Walkers supply the OEM parts

Be aware, if the water pump fails, it will leak all the water out - usually it would be the bearing that breaks causing the big leak, not the impeller as on some V6 Alfas.

Il write up some notes later.

[WhizzMan]

I was quoting the official alfa romeo manual when I said you needed to remove all the "big" bits, so that's why. See the PDF at http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/tech_pdfs/timing_belt.pdf. If people have tricks to do this easier, please share!

[AlfaJack]

I was quoting the official alfa romeo manual when I said you needed to remove all the "big" bits, so that's why. See the PDF at http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/tech_pdfs/timing_belt.pdf. If people have tricks to do this easier, please share!

You neednt remove those big bits. I really think they are going over board. You just need the wheel off and the cambelt covers

[wrinx]

Not done the job yet but I'd agree with Jack, there's enough room to do this without dropping the engine.

I've already binned the EGR stuff so that's a job saved too

wrinx

[Juan AR155Q4]

As the guys said, it?s not necessary to remove exhaust or axle. You?ll have to remove the cover, one support of the engine (to the bone) and the pulley of the crankshaft. A difficult one is the metal cover wich is attached to the water pump by one bolt, but can be done.

[jimnielsen]

what is the purpose of removing the main (left hand thread) bolt on the crankshaft when changing the timing / balance belts? in this doc..

http://www.fiatcoupe.net/howto.php?I...ter=9#content2

it says that you need to remove the bolt. but in the alfa document that I have for the process..(see here.. http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/tech.html) it does not mention it

does anyone have a complete copy of the "vehicle characteristics and maintenance guide" that this is taken from?

so - crank bolt out or not - and why?



**** quote from further back in this post ***
.....

Have now corrected the timing. It was one tooth out on the crank. I reckon yours would have been a tooth out in the other direction as I had less low down torque.

Anyway, it is now driving as expected power wise but I really think it does need a balancer belt as at mid to righ revs it doesnt feel right and its a bit noisier. In no rush to do it as its running well enough for the moment.
The biggest problem I have is that the bottom crank bolt will not budge! Even with our nice big new compressor its not touching it. I think the air hammer might be a bit weak though.

......
The bottom pulley is held on by a left hand threaded bolt so you've probably been tightening it up.


*** end quote ***

[wrinx]

You won't be able to remove the timing belt without removing the pulley wheel. The guides/casting, underneath the wheel in the pic below, don't allow enough room.

http://www.fiatcoupe.net/pop_picdisp.../bigfoto04.jpg

wrinx