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Thread: Clutch Problem

  1. #26
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    yes, it has an exhaust gas temp probe that goes into the hole that you can see on the exhaust. The lead is braided metal and it heads to the rear of the car on the passenger side. It is routed along with all the other cables and is definitely something that was fitted when the car was built. I have yet to investigate where it actually goes to back there.

    I have made some progress..

    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/gb1.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/gb2.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/gb3.jpg

    Now all I have to to is drain the GB oil, remove the linkages and remove the starter motor (this still looks difficult!)

    I am going to make up a "carrier" like the special tool in the manual to lower the GB, and to help in putting it back in...

    jimn

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    Finally got the gearbox out of my Q4. It really is quite a time consuming job, but i have learned a lot about how the car goes together by doing it my self. In the end I had four main problems with the process as it is outlined in the manual.

    1. the subframe that connects the lower wishbones is too difficult to remove in one piece. Its much easier to remove the lower wishbones first - then the remainder of the frame.

    2. in the manual it does not mention that there is a stud / nut on the gearbox side that needs to be undone along with the other main bellhousing bolts. Its difficult to see and find, just below the starter motor. Simply not mentioned in the manual at all, and very hard to see.

    3. there is a small thin steel dust plate that is attached by 2 hex headed screws and a normal 10mm bolt at the lower rear of the bell housing near the sump. The manual says to remove the hex headed screws, but the plate is still attached and prevents the gearbox from being fully removed. Had to get a friend to help me with this, in the end we bent the plate a little so that we could undo the small screw. Wont be putting this bit back in!!


    4. a lot of the 18mm and 19mm bolts are done up at least twice as tight as the spec in the manual calls for - making it difficult to undo them in a tight work space.


    I made up a Gearbox removal tool like in the manual, but suited to a small floor jack.. it worked a treat!



    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/clutch1.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/clutch2.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/clutch3.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/clutch4.jpg


    I have a question - Can anyone tell from these pictures if this is the original type of clutch that was fitted to a Q4?

    thanks, JimN

  3. #28
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    Yep, doing anything on a Q4 is always an education. You were lucky that you managed to get all the bolts out. Most of the time when I work on the car when it comes to undoing bolts that have not been undone for a while they seize and snap.
    And yes the subframe is a bitch, much easier to get the lower wishbones off first. Less chance of it smacking you in the face when you undo the last bolt.

    And as for the clutch, I'd say yes it is an OEM one as its got Fiat stamped on the pressure plate. If you look at some of the big plastic pressings in the car they are all stamped with Fiat/Lancia.

    Good luck getting it all back together.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  4. #29
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    Well, now I have been able to see exactly what was wrong with the clutch. The clutch plate is down to the rivets, and is pretty much had it, the fingers on the pressure plate are worn, the surface on the flywheel is quite bad and the thrust bearing (throwout bearing) need replacing.

    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/clutchplate.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/pressureplate.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/flywheel.jpg

    I have to find replacements for these parts before I put it back together. I have ordered a set of powerflex bushes for the front wishbones...

    jimN

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    Doing a great job, turning in to a good guide this is!

    Are you going for an uprated clutch?

  6. #31
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    I am planning on using OMP Racing part Numbers OIV/LA86/R (rigid 5 paddle clutch plate) and OIS/FI67 (reinforced clutch cover). I have not actually found any way of getting these pieces in Australia at the moment, but I expect that I will. Does anybody know where I can buy a new (standard) thrust bearing??? - as far as I can tell they are not included in the OMP kits... any ideas???

    Thanks, JimN

  7. #32
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    Would your Alfa dealer be able to order them?

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  8. #33
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    I'm still confused about the clutch release bearing.... I have ordered the clutch plate and cover from OMP but I still don't know if it contains the release bearing.

    Is there actually a separate part number for the bearing? Can someone tell me what the correct alfa part number is for it?

    thanks, jimN..

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    Hi Jim,

    If it doesnt have one then this is the part number for the Alfa one: 46465174.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Hello Jim,

    I can see that you hvae had a tough time with your clutch. Since I have the same problem with my clutch and plan to do the same job during the winter I wonder if you with the experince you have today recommend me to do the same, remove gearbox+4WDtransmission in on part or to lift out the complete package with engine?

    A friend of mine did like you did earlier this year, but he says lifting it all out downwards is his recommendation. However, then you probably need to have the car on a lift.

    Good luck with the rest of the job

    /A

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    Hi. #84 .. Most of the confusion that I had over how to remove the clutch came from the way that it is presented in the manuals (that are online here). I needed the manuals as I have never worked on a vehicle of this type before and the process of removing the clutch that is detailed in the manuals is spread over several parts and is both inaccurate and incomplete. However now that I have done it once (spread over several days) I think I could remove and replace it in a weekend. I would recommend simply removing the transmission (along with the attached torque distributor) from under the car. I left the rear wheels on the ground and simply jacked up the car so that the front bumper was 600mm above the floor level. You do need to remove a lot of stuff to get the gearbox out (in order to remove the clutch...).

    A basic order would be..

    1. remove front section of exhaust including cats.
    2. remove battery box
    3. remove gearbox side front hub nut.
    4. remove wheel arch dust covers.
    5. remove all bolts from gearbox side drive shaft.
    6. remove both lower wishbones.
    7. disconnect driveshaft from differential near engine
    8. remove lower suspension subframe.
    9. remove starter motor.
    10. disconnect fittings from gearbox (electrics, links, dipstick tube etc..)
    11. make support for gearbox that can be attached to a std floor jack (see manual).. attach.
    12. remove lower small brackets that connect engine to gearbox.
    13. remove bolts that secure torque distributor to engine
    14. remove bolts that secure bell housing to engine
    15. remove small sheetmetal "dustguard" between engine and gearbox.
    16. lower gearbox.
    17. remove clutch.

    most of the difficulties are with bolts that are on tight and thus hard to remove in a confined space. I have lots of photos of the process if you need em... cheers


    ~jim

  12. #37
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    Cool

    Good job Jim, especially like the trolley jack tool for taking the box off.

    Just looking at the picture of your flywheel, it looks badly crazed with lots of small cracks. I take it you're going for a new one?
    155 Q4
    155 V6
    155 TS
    155 1.8 16V
    156 1.8 16V
    156 2.4 JTD 20V Mjet

  13. #38
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    Well, I would get a new one, but I sure have no idea how I would obtain one here, so I am just having the old one machined. I think it will be fine

    JimN ~

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    Ok, Thank you Jim for your detailed work description.

    Just one question:

    3. I am not sure what you mean with "front hub nut". Please clarify

    /Andreas

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    The large nut which holds the driveshaft to the hub (where the wheel fixes).

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    The large nut which holds the driveshaft to the hub (where the wheel fixes).

    wrinx
    36mm with a torque wrench setting that no torque wrench bar can match!!

  17. #42
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    yes, its 36mm. I had to grind off one mm of the outside diameter of a $50.00 socket to get it to fit the inside diameter on the hub to get it on the nut. Then I used a 2 meter hollow steel bar over a solid 3/4" breaker bar to remove the nut. I actually had to use a friend who is stronger than I to make this happen! I would estimate that we were putting about 600 ft/lb onto the nut!

    JimN~

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnielsen View Post
    I had to grind off one mm of the outside diameter of a $50.00 socket to get it to fit the inside diameter on the hub to get it on the nut.

    That sounds about right I expect there is an expensive Special Alfa Tool for it though..

  19. #44
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    Get yaself a battery powered windy gun

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    Get yaself a battery powered windy gun

    wrinx
    Lol, or a battery powered IMPACT drill

  21. #46
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    Default clutch release bearing part numbers

    Hi All.

    Still don't have the new clutch yet... but I am struggling with the release bearing part numbers. On ePER it says that the release bearing is part # 46465174. But this is also the release bearing for the 147 which does not have a push clutch. Alfa Romeo here (in Australia) say that ePER is wrong and that the bearing should really be part number 46821337 - which is the same part number for another (newer Alfa) that also has a pull clutch like the 155 Q4.

    Does anybody have any insight into this?


    Thanks, JimN~

  22. #47
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    I guess, get them to order it, then take the old one along and compare, if its wrong, dont hand over any money, or if you have to pay upfront, get a refund as they would have badly advised you...

  23. #48
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    When I was removing the gearbox to get access to the clutch, I had trouble removing the box because there was still a bolt holding the clutch "dust guard" - It was bolt "C" in these pictures. Eventually I actually bent the guard in my efforts to get the gearbox off allowing me to see that there was a bolt still to be undone and also to get access to it.

    The manual shows how to remove bolts A and B - but it just ignores the existence of bolt C altogether! My question is this.....

    As you can see bolt C is behind the torque distributor and very close to the the center differential, is it possible to replace bolt C without first removing the center differential. Should it have been possible to remove bolt C with the clutch bellhousing bolts still fully tightened?

    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/cc1copy.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/cc3copy.jpg
    www.nielsen.org/alfa155Q4/cc2copy.jpg

    Thanks, JimN
    Last edited by jimnielsen; 16-10-07 at 10:44.

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    This also gave me trouble, in the end I was a bit heavy handed and the metal just tore I think - But I really can remember what I did now to get bolted back in - if djsly sees this he may be able to comment as his engine is in pieces too.

  25. #50
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    Well I waited 80 days for the racing clutch from OMP - but it hasn't happened. So I have had to buy a standard one! Now I am having a bit of a problem getting the gearbox bolted back up to the engine cant seem to get it to slide right in - - any tips or ideas??

    JimN
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