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  1. #26
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    What are the two heavier cables on the Hall sensor...earths???

    The connector and it's three pins looked in good condition although all three were very loose...is that normal?

    The two heavy cables were a bit grotty so cleaned them.

    Replacement battery on the car means it started on the button, so perhaps that's something which has been making it worse too.

    wrinx
    Last edited by wrinx; 06-06-12 at 21:42.
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    What are the two heavier cables on the Hall sensor...earths???
    Yes, they're earths.

    Wombat, were your three pins all loose too?

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  3. #28
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    Pins were tight, but badly corroded. Showed BiL the plug yesterday, and when he waggled the wires, the black one (shield I think) came out of the plug.

    Holding it out of the way, car really struggled to start. Holding it in the plug, car started kind of OK.

    To be sure all is well, we cut the plug off and soldered a brand new one on today. No starting problems so far and no popping and banging.

    So in summary, no loose pins, but plug fubarred so replaced.

    On a slightly different but related topic, my cam sensor unit is actually quite noisy. Went over the engine with a technicians stethoscope today, as there is a rattle coming from cmbelt end that I can't trace, and the top end seemed noisy. Still no wiser to the cambelt end, but suspect the a/c pump clutch (needs removing altogether), but front cam sensor end is definitely noisy compared to inlet cam.
    Drivers:
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    - Mrs Wombat Freelander

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    Awaiting a grand re-awakening:
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  4. #29
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    Has it got trick cams in...I forget? If not, you might have some wear on one of the lobes, the exhaust cam is known for it.

    Think I might have to remove the sensor and inspect these wobbly pins...car starting slightly better, but not much and probably down to a newer battery.

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  5. #30
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    Standard cams, but new when Sub had the engine built.

    Wobbly pins might suggest a bad connection in the plug/unit - yep, time to take it to bits!!!
    Drivers:
    - Red 155 Q4 Winny
    - Red 33 16v
    - Green 33 16v SW
    - Mrs Wombat Freelander

    Projects:
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    Awaiting a grand re-awakening:
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  6. #31
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    It was a pig to start after the event today...being sat in the sun can't have helped so perhaps the air temp sensor is dodgy too

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  7. #32
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    I have open the sensor and checked all wires. They are in good condition. But after testing and turning of the sensor I saw that black wire on the plug goes to red on sensor. Red in the plug goes to green on sensor and at last the green goes to black on sensor. Is that the same for you? Strange that they don't correspond

  8. #33
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    I've just opened mine to check the loose connections...all is well despite the sloppy pins.

    Didn't notice any difference in the colours, but as there's only one way it can connect it must be ok.

    The earth wires felt terrible but are actually very strong, it's just the heat shielding which is hardening and breaking down with age...the three wires in each seem fine.

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  9. #34
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    I have measured that its correct as it is. Just thougt the sensor was change some time with one from a coupe or some other with not matching wires.

    Anyway there is no effect on the engine if the sensor is connected or not. No effect if I turn the sensor. The only thing that effect is when you connect the plug to the sensor when engine is running, then the engine stops.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Integrale View Post
    I have measured that its correct as it is. Just thougt the sensor was change some time with one from a coupe or some other with not matching wires.

    Anyway there is no effect on the engine if the sensor is connected or not. No effect if I turn the sensor. The only thing that effect is when you connect the plug to the sensor when engine is running, then the engine stops.
    Have you tried starting the car with the sensor disconnected?

    The cam sensor is to tell the ECU what position the camshaft is at when the engine starts, and in some ECUs the signal is used to fine tune spark/injector pulse when the engine is running. Generally, the engine won't start if the engine has sequential injection (i.e. each injector fires only on the cylinders inlet cycle) and the sensor is unplugged or fubar.

    Just to break the good news, mine starts on the button everytime since I replaced the loom plug for the sensor.
    Drivers:
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    - Mrs Wombat Freelander

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by the wombat View Post
    Just to break the good news, mine starts on the button everytime since I replaced the loom plug for the sensor.
    Good to know....where did the plug come from?

    I removed the rubber boot on mine and the plug/wires looked perfect...but, there was some hardening of the wire (heatshield?) where it bends just before the plug, so perhaps I have some high resistance issues???

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by the wombat View Post
    Have you tried starting the car with the sensor disconnected?
    Yes It did, puff puff broom broom.

    Nice for you that the car now starting with out problem's.

  13. #38
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    Mine's still banging and popping

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    Good to know....where did the plug come from?

    I removed the rubber boot on mine and the plug/wires looked perfect...but, there was some hardening of the wire (heatshield?) where it bends just before the plug, so perhaps I have some high resistance issues???

    wrinx
    Its possible that the problem is the sensor breaking down, or resistance as you say. Could not even be related worst case.

    The plug is a standard 3 pin ECU loom plug. BiL had a new one with pigtails lying around. He thought it might be a Kia one!!!!

    Integrale, good to hear the car started without the sensor. That is quite unusual though.
    Drivers:
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  15. #40
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    Okaay, after reading my codes the cam sensor hasn't popped up, but the following have:

    When cranking there's a definite TPS and coilpack error and a possible MAP sensor error.
    When revving there's a definite coilpack error and possible TPS/MAP errors.
    Errors for idling are strange because the codes are not listed, so I'm guessing (same as the "possibles" above) that they're made form two added together These *might* be idle stepper motor and coilpack again.

    Would the TPS sensor stop it starting? I know the MAP sensor might...coilpack error could produce a weaker spark to hinder starting.

    The code 3 (not listed) was there all the time the engine was running, whether idling or revving...this *might* be TPS(1) and MAP(2)...I've emailed Neil to find out

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  16. #41
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    Last time I looked, coil packs were cheap enough so unless you've swapped them recently, I'd get them done.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  17. #42
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    Exactly my thinking, just looking at some now

    Could also be leads and grounds but for the sake of £12 each (ebay) it's worth ruling them out totally.

    I've got a MAP sensor in stock somewhere but have read that the pipe to the sensor can become blocked or split, so that needs checking.

    Beauty of the diag is that you can replace one item and then test for errors to see if clears the fault, rather than just replacing bits and hoping....I like it!

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  18. #43
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    Mmm...the plot thickens. The Startrek developer thinks I've got more serious problems with the EEPROM and EPROM. The latter can be explained by the Squadra but not the EEPROM

    Perhaps an ECU fault, I don't know.

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    Exactly my thinking, just looking at some now

    Could also be leads and grounds but for the sake of £12 each (ebay) it's worth ruling them out totally.

    I've got a MAP sensor in stock somewhere but have read that the pipe to the sensor can become blocked or split, so that needs checking.

    Beauty of the diag is that you can replace one item and then test for errors to see if clears the fault, rather than just replacing bits and hoping....I like it!

    wrinx
    Getting to check the leads etc on the coils is going to be the major pain, so if you are going to do that, you may as well swap them out.

    The small bore air pipe comes into the MAP sensor from underneath so you can't easily see if there is a problem there. If you are still running the original type pipe, I'd suggest swapping it out for a silicon one. They stay in place much better.

    Just ordered the cables to be able to connect up the laptop to the car, so I can check all these things as well.

    Oh and good luck with the ecu issues.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    Getting to check the leads etc on the coils is going to be the major pain, so if you are going to do that, you may as well swap them out.
    Exactly my thinking, coil packs bought for £12 each and if I've got to do down *there* (under the intake!) I'm not coming back out until it's all new...might event replace the leads too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    The small bore air pipe comes into the MAP sensor from underneath so you can't easily see if there is a problem there. If you are still running the original type pipe, I'd suggest swapping it out for a silicon one. They stay in place much better.
    All looked good and iirc it's silicon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    Just ordered the cables to be able to connect up the laptop to the car, so I can check all these things as well.
    Yeah, good luck with that...you may find out more than you want to!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Webb View Post
    Oh and good luck with the ecu issues.
    ...sometimes, too much information is a bad thing

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  21. #46
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    Well, seeing as the Q4 is undergoing something of an overhaul at the moment, its probably best I find out everything thats wrong with it.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  22. #47
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    Ok...update:

    I've repaired the grounds in the ECU and replaced the MAP sensor and IAV, but it's still not starting properly; and what's worse, it's still giving exactly the same errors as before!

    Unplugging the IAV when running doesn't seem to make much difference but it's a pig to idle when started without it.

    Similarly, unplugging the MAP sensor causes problems.

    I'm loathe to start throwing bits at it in the hope of a cure if one is causing all the problems....is it perhaps an ECU problem after all?

    I need to test power and grounds to the various bits, but it's still throwing up coil 2 error, EEPROM, EPROM, VAE/IAV, MAP sensor and TPS

    I'll be replacing the coil pack at some point, but the inlet has to come of and I'm really not motivated to do that!

    wrinx
    Last edited by wrinx; 23-06-12 at 18:56.
    My Q4 in the Garage

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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    Ok...update:

    I'll be replacing the coil pack at some point, but the inlet has to come of and I'm really not motivated to do that!

    wrinx
    may be some point, but in my previous v6 155, i had almost all of Your symptoms
    i've even exchanged ECU so already have two spare ones,
    ecu errors, ignition problems, cutting ignition on iddle, injector errors (replaced them also)
    and guess what.... removed coil pack (very easy access) and underneath coil pack case was totally broken.
    Replaced coil pack and no problems any more

    so previously replaced injectors, spark plugs, twice ECU, spark cables, rpm sensor etc etc made quite big bill, and coil pack was only 1/10 of total price of this replacement
    not to mention the stress and well-being that the engine is not working properly...

    so my suggestion is that You will try with coilpacks as a start, not as last bit

    regards

    w
    "Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway."

  24. #49
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    If it is a problem with the coil, might it be possible that the HV generated by the coil is not being contained within the coilpack and causing the other spurious errors?

    Have you been getting more than the usual static shocks from the car?
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 Q4: Dozeing in the garage.
    2009 Audi A4 tdi: Everyday drive.
    1994 Alfa Romeo 155 , 1995cc Std Standard Black

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzumushi View Post
    removed coil pack (very easy access) and underneath coil pack case was totally broken.
    Replaced coil pack and no problems any more
    Easy access We must be looking at different cars

    Thanks for the information though, very helpful.

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

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