What the Q4 should have been?

[Steve Webb]

The 155 was never what you could call a marketing success, they never sold all that many of them and the second hand value has never been all that strong. Personally I think that this is down to the fact that it looked the same as the rest of the range and that the performance wasn't that much improved over the V6.

So what do you think the difference would have been if the Q4 was only ever released in a form similar to the Ti-Z, wide arches, big spoiler etc.

Would it have made a difference to the initial sales, and would they all be worth more these days?

Can you imagine the Integrale being so successful if it looked like the the humbler Delta range?

After all back in the late 80's and early 90's everyone else was shouting about the performance models in their ranges. The original Sierra Cosworth, the original M3 anf the Grale, all Iconic cars in a similar grain to the Q4.

Personally I think Alfa missed the boat with the Q4, which is a real shame.

[AlfaJack]

And the Mercedes Cosworth which is still held in high regard.

I agree it should have looked like the top dog model - just look at the 156 GTAs - they still hold a much much better price than the TS and 2.5 V6s.

[Steve Webb]

Forgot about that one, imposing looking car even now.

Do you think it was down to the fact that the 155 came out just a few years after the Fiat takeover? Wasn't it the first new Alfa designed whilst under the Fiat umbrella?

[wrinx]

Yes, 164 had already been started, but the 155 was totally Fiat/Alfa.

I think the TiZ is absolutely stunning, I'd love a replica...

wrinx

[Steve Webb]

I think the TiZ is absolutely stunning, I'd love a replica...

wrinx

Exactly my point, IF the Q4 had been offered with this body option the Q4 would have been a far more successful car. Just look at the way we all lust after the Japanese Ti-zs .

Does anyone know if any of these cars have been exported from Japan?

[wrinx]

There was talk of one in Europe...but that's the only one!

I think they're probably sold behind closed doors, such is the demand.

There was also mention of a company making replica panels in Japan, but they weren't keen on exporting and the cost was prohibitive anyway.

I approached a fibreglass specialist some years ago, to make panels for my old V6...again the costs were too much for me at the time (same value as the car!). .I hope to look at it again one day but in the meantime I'm working on a semi-Ti-Z "style" conversion for the Q4...

wrinx

[Steve Webb]

See, there were benefits to the rust in your wings.

[wrinx]

Yes...it convinced me to go widebody, wouldn't have done it otherwise

wrinx

[#84]

It is an interesting discussion. A Ti-z would definitely have helped, but a car could be a sales sucess and/or a classic even with standard look if:

1. The price v.s. performance is right (Subaru Impreza 1:st generation)
2. It is a fantastic trackday car (Too small wheels on the Q4. Integrale, M3 E30 etc are much better)
3. It is easy to tune (Well it is, but cooling capacity/front area and engine bay layout are tough enemies)

Then, off course since this forum exists there are some lovely characteristics of the Q4 and a trackday in wet is fantastic

Do you agree?

[Steve Webb]

I think one of the original problems for the Q4 was that the performance from new was not that much better than the V6, certainly not enough of an improvement to justify the list price of ?22,500 when the V6 only cost ?16,800.

When you add to that the fact that the handling wasn't 100% convincing you can see why it just didn't sell in the first place. Of course the fact it was only LHD in the UK was just another nail in the sucess coffin.

When you say the wheels were too small, do you mean width or diameter? But I agree 15" wheels were just too small.

And a wet trackday is always more fun, and less expensive on the tyres, brakes etc..

[#84]

What I mean with the wheels is that the load index v.s. the actual wheel load is pretty close. If you look at a car of today of similar size the load index is often at +600 kg, while it is below 500 for the 205/45-16 (series 3). The 215/40-17 isn't better. If you go for the 225/45-16 used on Fiat Coupe it becomes better, but that wheel is bigger and is tricky to fit.

It doesn't matter how you do, there are no good alternatives that fits and have a design load index giving better margins. Those margins are very welcome during "inspired" driving" when you try to keep the heat development limited. AT least I find it troublesome to not fry the front wheels. 205/50-16 works ok, but for the inner wheel it touches the rear part of the wheel arch when the body rolls

[Varypodaros]

I think that the Q4 should be selled only with the Ti-Z look. if that was difficult for A R, they could sell the Q4 with the body kit of the japannese LV (Limited Version, for V6 155). it looks like this one:




and it could have a little bit more horsepower and bigger brakes (like Delta's EVOII) and wheels (speedline corse for example)...



more hardcore: they should get to the market the 155 GTA stradale project, this one:

[Steve Webb]

Really like the front bumper on this one. Most end up looking far too bulky for road cars, but this one is nice and aggressive without being too heavy.

So why did Alfa think that the Japanese market was the only one worthy if these style of bodykit?

And I so want a rear spoiler like this.