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  1. #1
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    Default oil radiator fan?

    what do you thing of a fan for the oem oil radiator?
    I saw more than 100 - 100 degrees yesterday evening and this morning in Athens traffic and I do not like this that much. There was not any chance to cool engine down as my {and others} max speed was 12 kmh. Took me an hour and 12 min for a distance of 16 km!!!
    Nick

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    What was the water temperature like?

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

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    I thought of that option too .I found the right fan for the job.A fan from an Alfa 33 air conditon radiator .

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    'normal'!
    more or less 92 degrees, but never over 97 - 98 degrees at 24-26 ambient temperature. And this weekend is going to be hotter, around 30 deg ambient temp.

    I must check if the oil radiator is 'functioning' and I wander if there is some kind of 'thermo by-pass' valve where the hoses for the radiator are. Long time ago we had a problem with such a valve {on a 75 Turbo} which was blocked in 'open' position and oil never was reaching the radiator. I need to 'study' the manuals first but I think that is 75 had such a valve there must be one on Q4 too.
    If there is not one, I believe I'll go for the fan and I need to find which one.
    Nick

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    Quote Originally Posted by axaQ42 View Post
    I thought of that option too .I found the right fan for the job.A fan from an Alfa 33 air conditon radiator .
    that's great axaQ42!!!
    Do you have any picture of this mod? Did you mount it 'after' the radiator?
    Nick

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    Something is wrong if the oil temperature goes too high. But 100 C is not much. At 120 C you must be carefull. I have driven my Q4 many laps ion different race tracks with standard cooling equipment and what causes problem is the water temperature. The oil goes up to 120, but not more.

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    It's not the temp that bothers me, although 110 degrees with a +/- 10% margin goes to 120 degrees. It's the oil pressure which is going down {little less than 1 bar} with 100 - 110 oil temp AT IDLE speed that makes me worry. And in Athens you can stay easily at idle for more than a minute, a lot more than a minute. Yesterday I was stopped {at idle} for + 13 sec - I counted them - and seeing oil pressure lower than 1 bar it's not my best. With oil temp at 90 C or lower I do not have any problem at all with the oil pressure. That's why I 'need' to lower the oil temp in city traffic.
    In race track you do not drive the car with the engine at idle speed, so 120 C I believe it won't matter that much.
    Hope I was clear and not confusing.
    Nick

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    Oops. A standard question: What oil do you use? What oil pressure do you have when you start the car in the morning (~10 C) and run it at 2500-3500 rpm?
    Depending on your answer to that question I would suggest different cures.

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    I use selenia racing 10w/60 and changed them three days ago.

    Starting the engine at idle I have 4 bar and goes up to + 5 bar at 2500 - 3000 rpm , ambient temp 22 C. {10 C is winter for us}. Don't have any problems during winter time {9 - 15 C ambient temp}.

    At 65 -70 C oil temp, pressure is + 2 bar at idle.

    With oil temp lower than 90 - 95 C has 1 bar {little more} oil pressure at idle {+2,5 bar at 2500 rpm}.

    Only at + 100 C {oil temp} oil pressure starts to go under 1 bar at idle - did not measured the pressure at 2500 rpm - and 4 bar at 4500 rpm.
    Nick

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    Bit strange, it may be your climate but in the UK I'd think something was not right if the oil temperature is getting so high but the water temperature is normal. If the engine is cool/normal then the oil should follow. The only time I've seen 100deg oil temp was when the radiator was not working well (half the fins missing!).

    Also I wouldn't get too hung up on oil pressure. So long as there is some pressure showing you have oil travelling around the engine and at idle the stress is minimal. What is more of a worry is the high temp may be causing the oil to degrade although you are using a high spec oil so it should be ok....but I'm not an expert!!!

    wrinx
    My Q4 in the Garage

    www.alfaromeo155.co.uk ............................ □□□-V-□□□ .................................. www.ilmostro.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrinx View Post
    Bit strange, .... If the engine is cool/normal then the oil should follow. The only time I've seen 100deg oil temp was when the radiator was not working well (half the fins missing!).

    wrinx
    I'll check the radiator too, after fixing my 'high' idle speed {again}.

    Yes, it's strange to me too having oil temp higher than the coolant one. But oil temp goes down very fast when the car is moving and oil pressure goes at + 1 bar {at idle} right away.
    I think I'm going to mount the oil rad fan as soon as possible and connect its wiring with the oem radiator one, starting at 86 C.
    Need to find the 'Alfa 33 air condition radiator fan' mentioned by axaQ42, and seams a little bit difficult as there were not that many 33 with air-con here in Greece. Did not find any on e-bay too, so far.
    Nick

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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post
    I'll check the radiator too, after fixing my 'high' idle speed {again}.

    Yes, it's strange to me too having oil temp higher than the coolant one. But oil temp goes down very fast when the car is moving and oil pressure goes at + 1 bar {at idle} right away.
    I think I'm going to mount the oil rad fan as soon as possible and connect its wiring with the oem radiator one, starting at 86 C.
    Need to find the 'Alfa 33 air condition radiator fan' mentioned by axaQ42, and seams a little bit difficult as there were not that many 33 with air-con here in Greece. Did not find any on e-bay too, so far.
    Just buy something like these:

    NO.1
    NO.2
    NO.3

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    Hi!

    Actually i didnt mounted it yet so i have no pictures.
    You say you have 4 bar on cold engine?Thats quite low.I have almost 7 bar at idle.
    I use castrol RS or from now on Valvoline VR1 5-50w.I used selenia racing but i threw it away becouse when i used it the engine was far more louder and the pressure the lowest in compare to the other oils(agip sint 2000,castrol RS,castrol EDGE,valvoline VR1)

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    @ axaQ42,
    you have maximum oil pressure {7 bar} at idle speed? That's great for you!!!

    @ gery83,
    never cross my mund to use something from bikes in this car. Great thought. All I need now is to measure the space behind the oil radiator till the plastic mud guard.
    I'll find one from Kawasaki!!!
    Nick

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    something came in my mind yesterday evening.

    Kawasaki parts are definitively 'tuning' parts 'recommended' for Alfas too.
    On my Bertone I use the 'piston pins' from Kawasaki as their ext diameter are the same with the oem one but the weight of them is almost - 40%.
    Definitively I'll go for a Kawasaki radiator fan.
    Nick

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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post
    @ axaQ42,
    you have maximum oil pressure {7 bar} at idle speed? That's great for you!!!

    @ gery83,
    never cross my mund to use something from bikes in this car. Great thought. All I need now is to measure the space behind the oil radiator till the plastic mud guard.
    I'll find one from Kawasaki!!!

    It was obvious for me.
    Manufacturers don't use so small fans in cars, with so high quality.
    The best thing is that these small fans were designed for this (cooling radiators), so they must do the job easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery83 View Post
    It was obvious for me.
    Manufacturers don't use so small fans in cars, with so high quality.
    The best thing is that these small fans were designed for this (cooling radiators), so they must do the job easily.
    I believe they will do the work.
    According to an old post, the oil radiator dimensions are 140x215 mm. Tomorrow I'll check the free 'space' behind the radiator and start looking for the fan. If thinks go well then I'll see if it's possible {if will have any affect} mount a fan also to the intercooler too.

    ps.
    There is an expretion in my country that says :
    - 'Now we have a priest we should bury two or three people!'
    I believe I've start thinking like that.
    Nick

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    well, I finally bought this fan {see picture}. It's from a Yamaha R6 and dimensions are : diameter = 14 cm and high = 5 cm.

    I believe that there are two options concerning this fan's wire connections.
    The first one is to connect this fan in parallel with the 'first speed' wire of the water rad fan so that this fan will go on at 92 degrees of water temp. But I have some concerns.
    Water gets hot {90 degrees} sooner than the oil, so I'll have this fan {oil rad one} working even when there is not any need for.

    The other option is to mount a proper 'fan switch' {?} at the oil rad exit with one contact only and at 80 degrees {there is one which opens at 87 deg and closes at 83 deg}, if I'll be able to short out an arrangement like this!

    I'm thinking to go for the first option for a start, as it's easier to make the wire connections needed and, if oil temp still goes high to go for the second option.
    What's your opinion?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Nick

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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post
    well, I finally bought this fan {see picture}. It's from a Yamaha R6 and dimensions are : diameter = 14 cm and high = 5 cm.

    I believe that there are two options concerning this fan's wire connections.
    The first one is to connect this fan in parallel with the 'first speed' wire of the water rad fan so that this fan will go on at 92 degrees of water temp. But I have some concerns.
    Water gets hot {90 degrees} sooner than the oil, so I'll have this fan {oil rad one} working even when there is not any need for.

    The other option is to mount a proper 'fan switch' {?} at the oil rad exit with one contact only and at 80 degrees {there is one which opens at 87 deg and closes at 83 deg}, if I'll be able to short out an arrangement like this!

    I'm thinking to go for the first option for a start, as it's easier to make the wire connections needed and, if oil temp still goes high to go for the second option.
    What's your opinion?
    Why don't you use the 2-stage switch on the water-cooler?
    Simply put a relay to one of it's outputs.

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    that's exactly the 'first option' I mentioned. I think I'll use the 1st speed wire-stage from the '2-stage switch on the water-cooler'.
    But as far as I've noticed the oil temp will be as much as 60 degrees when the water is at + 90 degrees, at engine 'warm-up'.

    Any way, as soon as possible I'll post pictures of this and my comments.
    Nick

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    My choice is to use manual switch for water cooler witch overrides OEM one (so you do not lose the 'automatic' OEM switch also) and a separate one for oil cooler (do not have this one though). This way I can keep the water temp. below 90 degrees and if I keep water temp below 90, oil temp does not exceed 90 degrees. This is in summer at around 25 degrees of air temp. while siting in traffic jams.

    Some tips from my experience.... When I stop in a traffic jam, I turn on the fan no matter that water temp has not reached 90 degrees. This way oil temp does not rise. If I forget to turn on the fan and let water temp exceed 90 degr., oil temp jumps up like a rocket to 100 degr. the same minute when water temp exceed 90 and an automatic relay kicks in... This way manually overriding water radiator fan I am able to keep my engine safe from high water and (what's more important IMHO) high oil temp... But our summers are around 25 degrees, so it's far from Greece or any other hot country in the south...
    Similarly manual switch helps to monitor water and oil temp.during 'active' driving in the city, etc.

    M

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    As a quick, but late comment to the oil pressure, I normally read 6-7 bar where you say you read +5 bar. The oil I have used the last 8 years is Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40. Before that Agip. I will now change to 60 grade Shell oil becaue of tuning. So, if your'e pressure reading is correct then either your main/con.r od bearings are worn or the oil pump is not work 100 %.

    I just had a talk to my cousin how cracked a con.rod bearing on his 4 month old Honda S2000. He first noticed it on the high oil temperatures. There is no ooil pressure gauge on that car.

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    He had a failing S2k engine after 4 months from leaving the factory?

    Thats probably a first than, the things are reliable as hell.
    Or did he push it to hard before running it in?
    155 Q4 wb 1995
    S2000 2005
    V70R 2005

    www.alfa155club.nl

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Q4Jan View Post
    He had a failing S2k engine after 4 months from leaving the factory?

    Thats probably a first than, the things are reliable as hell.
    Or did he push it to hard before running it in?
    I am not surprised if he pushed it to hard before running it in. The rear tyres are already worn out. He bought a new Focus ST 2 years ago and had two drive shaft failures ... in short time. I am just happy he doesn't follow my advices and blames the failures om Italian quality

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by #84 View Post
    As a quick, but late comment to the oil pressure, I normally read 6-7 bar where you say you read +5 bar. The oil I have used the last 8 years is Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40. Before that Agip. I will now change to 60 grade Shell oil becaue of tuning. So, if your'e pressure reading is correct then either your main/con.r od bearings are worn or the oil pump is not work 100 %.

    I just had a talk to my cousin how cracked a con.rod bearing on his 4 month old Honda S2000. He first noticed it on the high oil temperatures. There is no ooil pressure gauge on that car.
    well some notes from the workshop manual about oil pressure at 100 degrees C :

    1} at idle : 0,82bar
    and
    2} at 4000 rpm : 4,1 bar.

    I have 'little less' than 1 bar at idle / 100 C oil temp and 4 bars at 4500 rpm / 100 C.
    Pretty close to the standards, don't you think?
    Did not find any notes for higher oil temperatures. Never the less I have not had any problems with weather at lower temps. Now that went over 30 C {34 C today} I've noticed the problem and I certainly want to cool down the oil temperatures and probably I'll go for a lower water radiator fan switch soon.

    If you see 6-7 bars at 4000rpm / 100 C oil temp I think you should have a look at your 'oil pressure relief valve' that it's working properly. You should know that high oil pressure is dangerous too, as low oil pressure.
    A friend of mine had a crankshaft failure due to high pressure, long time ago. One of the plugs for the lubrication channels went of and instantly he lost all the oil pressure while he was traveling at high engine speeds. You can imagine what happened next. We {he, all our friends and I} use bolts instead of the sealy alu plugs at all costs.
    Nick

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