oil radiator fan?

[#84]

Nick,

It appears to be a clever solution with the fan, even though the pressure is correct according to the standard. At 100 deg C oil temperature both your and the workshop manual figures seems to be normal, even though I don't read that temperature very often: 60-80 in normal tempo and 110+ on the race track.

As I said, the oil pressure values I asked about were for conditions short after start up. 100 deg C take a while to reach.

The screws for plugging the crankshaft oil channel is good, but how on earth do you mount it? I was about to do it with a crankshaft for my Giulietta, but the machine shop that grinded and hardend the crankshaft said that the tool would probably break if you tried to make threads in the hardened surface Can you give an advice?

[Juan AR155Q4]

well, I finally bought this fan {see picture}. It's from a Yamaha R6 and dimensions are : diameter = 14 cm and high = 5 cm.

I believe that there are two options concerning this fan's wire connections.
The first one is to connect this fan in parallel with the 'first speed' wire of the water rad fan so that this fan will go on at 92 degrees of water temp. But I have some concerns.
Water gets hot {90 degrees} sooner than the oil, so I'll have this fan {oil rad one} working even when there is not any need for.

The other option is to mount a proper 'fan switch' {?} at the oil rad exit with one contact only and at 80 degrees {there is one which opens at 87 deg and closes at 83 deg}, if I'll be able to short out an arrangement like this!

I'm thinking to go for the first option for a start, as it's easier to make the wire connections needed and, if oil temp still goes high to go for the second option.
What's your opinion?

With very little electronics, you can use the oem oil temp sensor to control the fan.

[arjunior45]

Nick,

It appears to be a clever solution with the fan, even though the pressure is correct according to the standard. At 100 deg C oil temperature both your and the workshop manual figures seems to be normal, even though I don't read that temperature very often: 60-80 in normal tempo and 110+ on the race track.

As I said, the oil pressure values I asked about were for conditions short after start up. 100 deg C take a while to reach.

The screws for plugging the crankshaft oil channel is good, but how on earth do you mount it? I was about to do it with a crankshaft for my Giulietta, but the machine shop that grinded and hardend the crankshaft said that the tool would probably break if you tried to make threads in the hardened surface Can you give an advice?

why do you need to harden the crankshaft of a Giulietta? Older {f.ex. Giulia's} crankshafts has no need of.
I believe you could do the threads before any other 'job' and then, afterwards, go for the grind and the harden process. You can use Loctite high temp threadblock - or something like that - {I think there is one for + 1000 C} too afterwards.

[arjunior45]

With very little electronics, you can use the oem oil temp sensor to control the fan.

do you have any idea what to use?
Do you know if the 'oil temperature sensor' works at the 0 - 5 Volt range?
I have something for the 'intercooler' water injection system that use the 'signal' from the throttle position sensor to feed the water pump and it's adjustable too. This I could use! All I need is to make a second pcb.
The more I think of it the more I like your idea. Many many thanks.

[AJ]

An interesting topic - I noticed yesterday whilst driving the car that oil temperature creeped up to just over 90C and I then got stuck in traffic, which got me wondering about a fan for the oil cooler. I was getting bang on 1 bar at that temperature at idle.

I thought about mounting a fan behind the cooler to suck the air through (as I don't think I will have enough space to mount it in front due to the ducting and obscuring the air flow.

I have a couple of 5" fans from some old servers which I will try, I'd guess they will pull 1.6-2A.

For driving them - could take it off the water radiator fan, but I don't think that would be the best solution. I have an SPA oil temp/pressure gauge, and you can set external alarms for when pressure or temp <>= given criteria, so I might just set one for when oil temp > 80 then have it drive a relay to power the fan, as the max load on the external drive from the gauge is only 100mA.

I'll see if I can knock something up in the next few days.

[arjunior45]

A

I thought about mounting a fan behind the cooler to suck the air through (as I don't think I will have enough space to mount it in front due to the ducting and obscuring the air flow.

For driving them - could take it off the water radiator fan, but I don't think that would be the best solution. I have an SPA oil temp/pressure gauge, and you can set external alarms for when pressure or temp <>= given criteria, so I might just set one for when oil temp > 80 then have it drive a relay to power the fan, as the max load on the external drive from the gauge is only 100mA.

I'm going to mount this fan behind the cooler, just as you thought! There is not much space in front of the cooler.

Set the temperature at above 83,5 degrees as this should be the oil temperature when the oil thermostat opens.

[arjunior45]

ps.

this is the 'circuit' I'm going to use connecting it to the oem 'oil temperature sensor'.

[AJ]

Well I almost got it finished yesterday, the fans mount perfectly (I am using a 12" wide cooler, and just under 5" high) so 2 fans next to each other fits fine. I just used some stiff wire to mount them.

The SPA gauge has an external alarm which switches +12ve when it is set, so I just wired this up to a relay to power the fans. This will just switch off or on at a given temperature, so I may need to add a timer if they go off/on/off/on too much.

I tapped off the main water rad fans for the constant +12ve, the oil cooler fans in total draw a little under 2 Amps. I separately fused them anyway.

I'm awaiting pins for the connector for the SPA gauge (for some reason they don't include these, they are on request )

I'll upload photos later, but for now here is a diagram:

[AlfaJack]

Nice work AJ
Iv no idea how hot the oil gets seeing as the sensor has never worked Perhaps I should fix it

[AJ]

I don't think it would have got and stayed that hot apart from the fact we had been doing full throttle mapping on it, and on the return journey came into a village and had to stop or crawl forwards for ~15 mins. If it hadn't just spent the previous half an hour at full throttle it might not have been so bad, but for a relatively cheap and simple modification I hope it helps.

[Gery83]

I had a nother idea, how to control the fan, the easiest way.
Simply get a suitable thermo-switch at tis location, on the picture.

oil.jpg

[arjunior45]

I had a nother idea, how to control the fan, the easiest way.
Simply get a suitable thermo-switch at tis location, on the picture.

oil.jpg

Could you measure the thread at this location? I think it will be easier and without messing around with car's electronics.
Maybe I'll go for this option.

[Gery83]

Could you measure the thread at this location? I think it will be easier and without messing around with car's electronics.
Maybe I'll go for this option.

M14x1,5

[arjunior45]

M14x1,5

Thank you very much Gery.

Quite small for a thermo switch. I'll see if there is something available at the 83,5 - 87 range.

[AJ]

My fans are finished, and working. For me it was easy to rig it up to the SPA gauge - it in fact goes to ground when the over temperature alarm is set, not high, so disregard my circuit diagram I will re-do it.

I have set the gauge to drive the fans at 80C, so I am waiting for a hot day (aren't we all) so that I can test with the off and on to see if they will work.

I am also almost finished making proper ducting for the coolers using black perspex - very easy to work with.

[arjunior45]

still did not mount the fan - need to solder the supports for the fan on the cooler to keep a stable distance from it, but
a} I found a thermo-switch with M14x1,5 to mount at the location indicated by Gery. It opens at 87 / 82 degrees!
and
b} I checked the 'oil pressure sender' with a very accurate analog meter and guess what? The sender was not the oem one {0 -8 bar} but a 'Veglia' 0 -6 bar one and it was giving wrong 'readings'! It was reading 1,5 bar less at least, at oil temps 80 - 105 degrees!!! Now I 'have' + 1,5 bar at 95 degrees, at idle!

In any case, I'm going to mount the fan in any case. Still do not like this 105 degrees.

[AJ]

+1.5 bar @ 95C is good, what oil are you using?

[arjunior45]

Selenia Racing 10W-60