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  1. #1
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    Default what do you think of this?

    Its a mod made to Grales 16V.
    I'm very temped for such a mod in my Q4 too. What do you think?

    Nick
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    So this is individual coils and an amplifier? What car may those parts come from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post
    Its a mod made to Grales 16V.
    I'm very temped for such a mod in my Q4 too. What do you think?

    Nick
    What is this good for?
    Is it any better than the factory solution?

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    If you run the engine at high boost levels, there may be a limitation on the spark from the standard coils, but I wouldn't change for this reason if I hadn't expereinced the problem.

    The 155 GTA has this solution of the said reason.

    I experienced a spark failure some months ago which spread to the other cylinder sharing the same coil and that made the car totally undriveable and it almost ruined my new Sachs sinter clutch since I tried to get out off a heavy traffic crossing on two cylinders - In that case individual coils would have helped.

    A reason to change to individual coils is if you laborate with fast burning fuels requiring late ignition. The standard configuration is a wasted spark system where there is a spark in every cylinder once a revolution. The "wasted" spark could be dangerous in such a setup. But then it is not enough with inndividual coils, you also neeed indvidual firing. Check with RP-lab for such a solution.

    /A

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaJack View Post
    So this is individual coils and an amplifier? What car may those parts come from?
    NOTE :
    This mod is for IAW P8 {used on Q4, Evo2 and FIAT Coupe 16VT} NOT for the Integrale 16V/Evo1.
    yes, it is 'individual coils' and an 'ignition control module/unit'.
    The module {Bosch 0 227 100 211} is the one used on Audi A4 / A4 Quattro {'97 - '01} / A8 / A8 Quattro {'97 - 99} / Golf IV / New Beattle / Passat GLS ...
    Do not have right now in my hands the data for the coils.

    The guy who gave me this note says that "seams to have a totally different engine. revs in an 'other' way". And to tell you the trough he is someone that I trust.

    I'm thinking seriously to go for this mod as the summer will be the proper time to 'mess' around a little with my car.

    Any other comments?

    Nick

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    It sounds interesting. If the engine behaves different/better I would suppose it is due to the reason that the coil gives a better spark. Do you have a clue what amplification the different coils have?

    A little bit off-topic, but I have started to test and sell a battery performance unit for trucks in Scandinavia. The impact on the battery lifetime, capacity and cold start properties seems to be undoubtfull. However the unit does also induce a high frequency ~1,5 V amplitude which is supposed to have a positive impact on the ignition process on petrol engines. I haven't had time to evaluate the ignition performance in detail, that is why I am interested. I have also some other ignition ideas in the pipeline and I would say it is a shame to just take some VW-parts off the shelf to tune your Q4, when the world is full of more advanced concepts that are not too complicated to implement. Send a PM if you are interested in the discussion of alternative solutions.

    By the way, the battery unit have so far reduced the average fuel consumtion in my 147 1.6 TS with 4-5 % in an A-B-A-B test over 7000 kilometers!

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    to tell you the trough, the only field that seams 'Greek' {or Arab} to me is electricity! So, if you say that something is in a certain way I can only agrie with you and trust you. But I can not comment or discuss any 'alternative solutions' as I probably can not understand them. But thank you very much for the offer.

    Regarding ignition amplification I'm a fond off. From my experience, in my good old Bertone, replacing the oem ignition system with a Bosch amplifier - not an electronic ignition - {used in the Alfa Montreal and some other German cars - Porsche 911, the first one} and making the connections that were needed, I've noticed maybe too many advantages.
    A better {definitively} cold start, even with the car covered with 40-45cm of snow.
    No need to 'feed' with gas the engine starting it.
    Longer life for the spark plugs and the contacts, which 'have more than 30.000 Km and still going.
    Less gas emissions ...
    But most of all, I have NOT any more the typical cough from the dirty sparks after even a long time in idle in city traffic. And the engine spec are not for street use - high compression pistons and wild cams.
    Can't tell anything for fuel consumption because I do not know {and I do not care that much}.

    If this mod {separate coils to each cylinder} can give me the 'half' of the benefits such as the Bertone's ignition amplification I think ... I could live with the shame taking some VW-parts off the shelf to tune my Q4.

    Need to go now, but if I can find any info of what amplification the different coils have, I'll post it here.

    Nick

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    well, I spoke with this friend of mine and he told me that a better arrangement from the oem one {two ignition modules - two ignition coils} is to have 4 {four} ignition modules and 4 {four} ignition coils, probably the stick {coil-on-spark} type one. So we could have a separate ignition module and coil for each cylinder.
    He also told me that we could use another couple of the oem Marelli BKL3BD modules - in parallel connection - to have the 4 modules and probably the FIAT 20V models coils.

    Any comments?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post

    Any comments?
    More of a request really, lets see some pictures of your Bertone!

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    quite old photo but thats what I have here

    Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post
    quite old photo but thats what I have here

    Nick
    Oh SHIT!

    I would give away my Q4 for such a beauty...

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    this 'beauty' is the ugliest {almost} and the most aggressive frontal Alfa ever made!
    Makes a lot {really a lot} of noise, almost too hard suspension, too hard steering wheel at parking maneuvers, no heat at all during winter time, too much heat coming from the exhaust tube under the gas pedal - already burn a couple of shoes soles - too slow windscreen wipers and you can sniff the petrol from inside the car!
    But who cares! She is the funniest ever Alfa to drive, in wet{?} or dry condition. You can make it go anyway you like as long as you're not afraid to keep the gas pedal to the ground, even when the 'nose' point at 90 degrees at the direction you 'should' keep on the road.
    And most of all, she is easier to work with. You can see everything and adjust everything in no time. Spare parts easier to find {now days} and almost everything available. No plastic mechanical parts at all.
    ...

    Nick

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    Quote Originally Posted by arjunior45 View Post
    this 'beauty' is the ugliest {almost} and the most aggressive frontal Alfa ever made!
    Makes a lot {really a lot} of noise, almost too hard suspension, too hard steering wheel at parking maneuvers, no heat at all during winter time, too much heat coming from the exhaust tube under the gas pedal - already burn a couple of shoes soles - too slow windscreen wipers and you can sniff the petrol from inside the car!
    But who cares! She is the funniest ever Alfa to drive, in wet{?} or dry condition. You can make it go anyway you like as long as you're not afraid to keep the gas pedal to the ground, even when the 'nose' point at 90 degrees at the direction you 'should' keep on the road.
    And most of all, she is easier to work with. You can see everything and adjust everything in no time. Spare parts easier to find {now days} and almost everything available. No plastic mechanical parts at all.
    ...

    Nick
    Yes, I love them!

    The father of a girlfriend of mine used to have a yellow one, with a 2000ccm racing engine. It could go over 200kph!

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Gery83 View Post
    Yes, I love them!

    The father of a girlfriend of mine used to have a yellow one, with a 2000ccm racing engine. It could go over 200kph!
    204 {actual}kph at + 6900rpm with the 2000 dif. But I do prefer the 132kph at 7300rpm with 6/41 ratio dif.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaJack View Post
    So this is individual coils and an amplifier? What car may those parts come from?
    well, this is the idea and my very very first next mod.
    With FIAT Coupe 20VT coils.
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    Nick

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    Interesting mod. I do like my spark plug cover though and I guess that would have to go to make space..

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    Yes, I think it should go.
    I do not know if I'd like the 'new' look more, we shall see.
    Nick

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    Cool modification with the Coil On Plug arrangement. The C.O.P.'s do always have better spark, that is why they are fitted direct to the spark plug - to not risk any short cuts from the cables since the voltage is higher.

    I will test my new ignition system on a Seat Toledo, which has a similar wasted spark system, within some weeks. If it works fine and there is no piston meltdown , I will build one for the Q4 as well!

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    why to have a piston meltdown? I can't see any reason.
    Nick

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    well, the second pair of the ignition modules {and their alu support} arrived earlier this week and the 4 {5 to tell the trough} coils on plug from FIAT Coupe 20VT will arrive {hopefully} next week. So I hope to complete this mod soon.

    But I need an advice.
    What should I do with the two aluminum supports of the ignition modules. One is brand new and the one on the car is oxidized. Tried to polish it with no acceptable results.
    I'm thinking to paint them both in black or in red. Do I need a primer first or is there any other paint I can use?
    Which is the paint some of you used to paint the spark cover {for example}? Does it last or not?
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    Nick

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    there is lots of info on the web about how to clean pitted aluminum - but your heatsink does not look to bad...

    please take lots of photos of this mod.. I am interested in it as well..


    cheers, jim !~

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    I had an inspection of where I could place these ign. modules.
    I'll be forced to move battery or replace the air filter box with a cone {not that clear it will be sufficient}.
    Nick

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    I wouldn?t paint them, as heating exchange capability will be reduced.
    You could anodize them.

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    The main reason more coils are used is to allow a longer dwell or "charge" up time.

    With electronic ignition (unlike an old points system) the dwell can be kept constant with RPM. The downside is, as RPM increase there may not be enough time in between each fire to get a full charge in. If this happens, spark duration and quality etc will drop off and you may get inaudible missfires or even full audible missfires in extreme cases.

    Unless you have an issue with the original system I don't see any benefit changing to coil on plug. If anything its a more expensive and higher maintenance system

  25. #25
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    Easier maintenance and better accessibility is my first concern - issue, not to mention the oem high voltage wires/cables {for the spark plugs} which can easily start having 'problems' {short cuts}.
    With this set up will be easier for me to check if a part {module or coil} has a problem and less effort to change any defective part - with out the need to rise the car on a port. Replacement of a defective part can be done even at the side of the road.

    I do not know if there are any other real benefits {spark quality} as I have not test this set up yet, but I will soon.
    Nick

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