Wideband lambda sensors

[wrinx]

How much should I expect to pay...internet prices are varying quite a bit?

wrinx

[jimnielsen]

lots of people use this product - its made by innovate motorsports. I bought it from moates in the usa. Its cheap and very effective.


http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=88

They also have a very simple display unit called the "o meter" that not only displays the output from the Lambda sensor, but also acts as a simple datalogger for storage of lambda (or any other analogue) data..iots $60.00 USA..

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=134

[Stuntz]

I have the one form inovative systems

[wrinx]

Thanks guys

wrinx

[na15575]

hi
the wide band is the sensors that works with 5volt and not 1volt like the oem?

[AJ]

posting from greece do you just want a wb sensor or a guage/logger as well? it is easy to just use a sensor and feed the input to an rs232 port, but that would really only be useful as a logger.

i have the Vems gauge which uses a Bosch wb sesnor. It also has an input for an analog (0-12v iirc) and an rpm input. i have rpm working well (i had to use a couple of resistors as it wanted 0-5v and the sig is 12v. it uses 4 pulses per rev if anyone neds to know). i also have boost fed into it for the analog, and using the datasheet for the boost sensor can translate into meaningful values. when all this is logged it enables me to see exactly where my maps need editing for correct fuel. Just logging afr on its own is not hugely helpful.

gauges like innovate etc can al be linked to a central control unit which is able tolog data from many more sensors.

I paid about 100gbp for the gauge an sensor 2nd hand off a mate.

[wrinx]

I have absolutely no idea what you just typed...!

My plan was to just monitor the AFR via a gauge, alongside boost and fuel pressure gauges...possibly "glowshift" gauges:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/52mm-BLUE-DIGI...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=200260941035
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140270399091


The next level of monitoring and programming is a bit beyond me at the moment

wrinx

[cuore_sportivo_155]

I have the vems aswell

[wrinx]

?164? Ouch....!

http://www.vems.co.uk/wideband.html

wrinx

[wrinx]

Mmm, just read the blurb again in the auction I posted above, it says the gauge connects to the narrow lambda.....so no need for a wideband.

Are they any good?

wrinx

[jimnielsen]

The one in the "blurb above" wont really tell you anything about the richness or leanness of the mixture a few percent away from 14.7:1 because the resolution of the narrow-band sensor is designed to be very accurate around this value but very inaccurate away from it (at least to have very low resolution away from it). Anyway, it will provide a nice changing number to look at. The moates "O-Meter" is a general purpose digital display that shows analogue values from any analogue output (such as the changing voltage of a wb lambda sensor). Its only $60 USD and also acts as a simple datalogger for these (or any other sensors) data outputs. You'd need to connect it to a suitable wb sensor and associated electronics package such as the vems unit or the innovate motorsports ones.. both uk companies so you'd be helping your own economy!!

jimn~

[wrinx]

Thanks, if it's just going to tell me that the AFR is changing and not when it's out of spec then it's a waste of money.

Not sure I need, or am prepared to spend the ?300 for the Vem/Moates/WBlambda set up....*ponders*

wrinx

[wrinx]

Mmm...this looks very reasonable:

http://www.xenocron.com/catalog/omet...mbo-p-239.html

(wallet parameters have moved! )

wrinx

[jimnielsen]

that... the Moates "O-Meter" and the Innovate Motorsports LC-1 & wb sensor is exactly what I use.

jimn~

[na15575]

hallo
for what reason we have to use the wide band sensor?

ps
i have install an air fuel ratio meter from the autogauge to the standart sensor
and the idle rpm starts to play for about 100rpm up and down




is it from the gauge or what?

[cuore_sportivo_155]

Thanks, if it's just going to tell me that the AFR is changing and not when it's out of spec then it's a waste of money.

Not sure I need, or am prepared to spend the ?300 for the Vem/Moates/WBlambda set up....*ponders*

wrinx

why ?300?? the vems unit is complete with gauge etc.. it's an all-in price... for logging you'd need a laptop though...

[WhizzMan]

hallo
for what reason we have to use the wide band sensor?

ps
i have install an air fuel ratio meter from the autogauge to the standart sensor
and the idle rpm starts to play for about 100rpm up and down




is it from the gauge or what?

Restore your original wiring and see if it goes away. Most likely, it is from the gauge.

[wrinx]

why ?300?? the vems unit is complete with gauge etc.. it's an all-in price... for logging you'd need a laptop though...

Ahh, I thought it was just the gauge! So nothing else needed...just the laptop?

Not so bad then...I happen to have a spare laptop kicking about too

wrinx

[axaQ42]

As i know the WB lambda does no correct the mixture at idle if you use bigger injectors.So if you plan one day to go with bigger injectors it would be wise to make another mounting point on the downpipe so you can have the original one for mixture correction and the WB for AFR gauge,loggin eccetera....

[AJ]

if you are modifying the engine, or map you need to make sure fuelling is good. for this you need a wb sensor and gauge. though trying to read the gauge on WOT acceleration is pretty hard to do - it will never update quick enough for a short spike or you will crash... on light throttle it is easy. To get any meaningful result from it you need to log the AFR with other data. having a graph of AFR on its own is meaningless. Throttle position and revs are good values to log.

Keep your eye out for the vems on ebay, they do come up occasionally. Innovative is good, a friend uses it but i do not know which units are required.
The vems can also act as a narrow band sensor so you can wire it up to the ecu in place of the oe one. You can also change the simulated values, effectively fooling the ecu into thinking it needs to run richer/leaner. obviously this will only work on open loop.
Also the vems system connects to your laptop via 9 pin serial but works finewith usb to serial adapters to work on more modern laptops which dont have a com port.

Also it needs to mount in a horizontal section of the downpipe, 50cm back from the turbo iirc, so you'll need to cut and weld a boss in.

avod the gauges that clip onto the narrowband sensor, they will change too quickly for it to be of any use.

[Juan AR155Q4]

www.zeitronix.com

AFR + EGT + logging inputs.

[sub555]

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Air Fuel Ratio Gauges Explained...
An Air Fuel Ratio Gauge is a valuable tuning aid. By taking the output from an oxygen sensor, sometimes called a lambda sensor, in the exhaust of the car the a/f gauge is able to read the content and display the ratio of air to fuel that was present in the original mix.

A/F ratios are given by molecular weight and the 'stoichiometric' ratio is 14.7:1 - this is the ideal air fuel ratio for complete combustion. It is at this a:f ratio that all the fuel is burned in the given quantity of air.

When tuning a car, some folk tune for emissions, some for economy and some for performance. It's already been said that 14.7:1 is the ideal air/fuel ratio for clean burning but what about going rich or lean.

The economy minded tuner will be aiming to reduce the amount of fuel in the mix, or lean it. Lean air/fuel mixtures improve fuel economy but also cause a sharp rise in oxides of nitrogen (NOX). If the mixture goes too lean, it may not ignite at all causing "lean misfire" and a huge increase in unburned hydrocarbon (HC) emissions. Lean air/fuel mixtures burn hotter and can cause rough idle, hard starting and stalling, and may even damage the catalytic converter. Lean mixtures also increase the risk of spark knock (detonation) when the engine is under load.

The performance minded tuner will most likely want to richen up the mixture. A rich fuel mixture is necessary when a cold engine is first started, and additional fuel is needed when the engine is under load. Rich a:f mixtures burn cooler and decrease the risk of spark knock (detonation) when the engine is under load. But rich mixtures cause a sharp increase in carbon monoxide (CO) emissions.

So, in an ideal world your engine would run rich when you first started it, a little lean on a cruise and a little rich under hard acceleration or when pulling up a hill. It doesn't just stop there. There are many reasons why a performance tuner might want to alter the air fuel ratio of his car and with one of these air:fuel ratio meters he'd be able to see just what is going on.

There are two types of sensor available, the 'narrow band' and the 'wide band'. The narrowband is the original type and the wideband is a more recent development. Depending on your aims one or the other might be more suited for your application. If you are looking to merely diagnose a problem with your car and you don't want to go tweaking it too lean or too rich then the narrow band air:fuel ratio meter will probably suffice. If, however, you want to go delving into more radical tuning a wideband a/f gauge is a must. Take a look at the graphs below for a pictoral explanation of the differences.


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Narrow Band Output Graph Ref: narrowbandgraph

See how the output range is only linear over a 'narrow' band. This band corresponds to the stoichiometric A/F Ratio (14.7:1). If the air fuel mix is very lean or very rich then the output of the sensor is very low or very high and it is impossible to acertain the a:f ratio.
This sensor output could be read over the narrow range of 14.25:1 to 15.25:1

Click More for a bigger picture.







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Wideband Output Graph Ref: widebandoutputgraph

See how the output range is only linear over a 'narrow' band. This band corresponds to the stoichiometric A/F Ratio (14.7:1). If the mix is very lean or very rich then the output of the sensor is very low or very high and it is impossible to acertain the ratio.
This sensor output could be read over the narrow range of 14.25:1 to 15.25:1

Click More for a bigger picture.







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Round Digital Air / Fuel Ratio Gauge - Narrowband Ref: DT001


*** This gauge is built to order, expected delivery of 2 weeks ***

for detailed product information click...



Price: ?63.02 (Incl. VAT)


Display
Red LEDGreen Backlit LCDBlue Backlit LCD
Face
BlackWhite
Bezel
BlackSilver


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Square Digital Air /Fuel Ratio Gauge - Narrowband Ref: DT002


*** This gauge is built to order, expected delivery of 2 weeks ***

for detailed product information click...



Price: ?53.04 (Incl. VAT)


Display
Red LEDGreen Backlit LCDBlue Backlit LCD


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Narrowband Oxygen Sensor Ref: DT017

*** Usually in stock for next day (UK Mainland) delivery ***



Price: ?20.68 (Incl. VAT)




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Bung and Plug for mounting oxygen sensor Ref: DT032

Bung and plug for mounting oxygen sensor

*** Usually in stock for next day (UK Mainland) delivery ***


Price: ?6.33 (Incl. VAT)

dont know if this is any help steve?

[wrinx]

Thanks.

Think I've decided to go for the VEMs system...not in a rush though.

wrinx

[wrinx]

Is this any good? I know it's not a WB but how about the recording unit...?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GAZTECH-INTL-R...QcmdZViewItem?

wrinx

[na15575]

thats very nice

do you know the cost?

thank you