Boost and waterspray issues

[AlfaJack]

By the way, i had the pierburg connected the wrong way i think.
The grey cable should be connected at the radiator side pin of the pierburg, thats right??

I read that is does not matter which way round the wires are.

[Brul(tm)]

I read that is does not matter which way round the wires are.

Then why is the connector made with two different schapes for the connecting pins??

Greetings,
Marc

[pavs]

The Pierburg is just a solenoid which is NOT polarity dependant so it will work either way round.

If you connect the Pierburg to a 12v supply you should hear and feel the valve operate either way round

[WhizzMan]

The Pierburg is just a solenoid which is NOT polarity dependant so it will work either way round.

If you connect the Pierburg to a 12v supply you should hear and feel the valve operate either way round

Ehr, to my knowledge a solenoid still depends on polarity. It's basically an electro-magnet with a pin in it. If you reverse the polarity, the pin moves the opposite direction, which in the case of the pierburg, would probably mean it won't move a bit, just click.

[Evodelta]

Nice isnt it, it made the drivability much better on mine! Its why I am going to get the electronic boost controller

A cheaper alternative is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERTEK-BOOST...QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure you buy one with two inlets/outlets and not three and most importantly DON'T exceed the max boost level which your chip and engine is mapped for.

I can't speak for this particular make, but I have a similar (cheaper) one fitted and the boost comes on nice and strong, particularly mid range and on the motorway where I can get full boost just by squeezing the throttle a bit. It holds max boost at the redline and doesn't tail off, the only downside is fuel consumption drops as you will no doubt be using more full boost....

[WhizzMan]

A cheaper alternative is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERTEK-BOOST...QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure you buy one with two inlets/outlets and not three and most importantly DON'T exceed the max boost level which your chip and engine is mapped for.

I can't speak for this particular make, but I have a similar (cheaper) one fitted and the boost comes on nice and strong, particularly mid range and on the motorway where I can get full boost just by squeezing the throttle a bit. It holds max boost at the redline and doesn't tail off, the only downside is fuel consumption drops as you will no doubt be using more full boost....

Are you saying that a static boost for all RPMs is better than one that can give you the max boost your engine can handle depending on the RPM? To be safe, you have to set this static controller to the lowest boost (not the maximum as you suggest) allowed by the ECU at any RPM. This way you can't benefit from higher boost at other RPMs and that way you will lose power at those RPMs. This is why they put all the complicated pierburg valve equipment on in stead of a simple valve.

[AlfaJack]

Then why is the connector made with two different schapes for the connecting pins??

Greetings,
Marc

I dont think mine was (before it broke off ), it was just a connection with 2 holes in it

[AlfaJack]

A cheaper alternative is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERTEK-BOOST...QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure you buy one with two inlets/outlets and not three and most importantly DON'T exceed the max boost level which your chip and engine is mapped for.

I can't speak for this particular make, but I have a similar (cheaper) one fitted and the boost comes on nice and strong, particularly mid range and on the motorway where I can get full boost just by squeezing the throttle a bit. It holds max boost at the redline and doesn't tail off, the only downside is fuel consumption drops as you will no doubt be using more full boost....

I have been warned off these for the reasons Whizz mentions - the price difference is nice though, one tenth of the price!

[juamin]

If i replace the pierburg with a Manual boost controller, what pressure should i set ??

[wrinx]

What happens when you hit max boost with one of these boost controllers?

Really liked the power delivery without the Pierburg

Are there any replacements...Pavs?

As my car can reach this boost without there must be a problem with the PV???

wrinx

[cuore_sportivo_155]

Ehr, to my knowledge a solenoid still depends on polarity. It's basically an electro-magnet with a pin in it. If you reverse the polarity, the pin moves the opposite direction, which in the case of the pierburg, would probably mean it won't move a bit, just click.

not likely... metal is atrracted by either the north or south pole of a magnet... when trying to attract another magnet, polarity matters...

[AlfaJack]

As my car can reach this boost without there must be a problem with the PV???

wrinx

Iv lost track, what boost are you currently hitting?

[AlfaJack]

If i replace the pierburg with a Manual boost controller, what pressure should i set ??

Which head gasket do you have?

[juamin]

Which head gasket do you have?

the stock headgasket

[Stuntz]

looking at that the standard turbo is capable od 1.4 bar you set it there. The engine is capable of holding 1.6 bar on stock components.

[Evodelta]

Are you saying that a static boost for all RPMs is better than one that can give you the max boost your engine can handle depending on the RPM? To be safe, you have to set this static controller to the lowest boost (not the maximum as you suggest) allowed by the ECU at any RPM. This way you can't benefit from higher boost at other RPMs and that way you will lose power at those RPMs. This is why they put all the complicated pierburg valve equipment on in stead of a simple valve.

If a chip is mapped for say 1.2 bar then set the valve to 1.2, as long as you don't exceed that you will be ok.
I'm no armchair mechanic who just plucks things from the internet or a manual, I do actually test this stuff out before posting up. I've been running these valves for years with no problems at all, they only get bad press because people get carried away and exceed the max boost that their chip is mapped to and the engine goes bang.

Things have come a long way in the last 20 yrs when the Pierburg valve was first fitted to these engines, a long long way. Cars made in the factory were sent all over the world and so were set to safe limits for use in high altitude areas with poor fuel, I don't live in such an area or such a time so can run my car accordingly.
The P valve tails off the boost because of this and to give the engine and turbo extended life on normal road car, but as we are discussing tuning engines for power here you can throw that analogy out of the window, the second you go for more power then you are reducing the life of the engine and it's components, I thought this was obvious so didn't mention it in my initial post....

The P valve dribbles out the boost signal to the wastegate which in turn causes wastegate creep, a soggy response and reduced max boost at high rpm, fit a boost controller and kiss this goodbye.
Electronic boost controllers are for the max power generation who like to see flashing lights and lots of knobs to twiddle on the dash, I grew out of that years ago, for me the massive additional cost doesn't compare with any benefits it might give. As long as it's got a stop at the upper limit I can regulate the boost with my right foot.

It has to be said though that most of you guys here will be still running the standard weedy turbo and it is a bit delicate, especially when overspun. I traded up to the standard integrale 16v turbo some while back, it's a lot stronger, gives much more power and even then it's small compared to what some people are fitting now.

[wrinx]

Thanks, your thoughts mirror mine, I don't like the way the boost trails off and it doesn't happen on my JTD....although Pavs reported a much improved car when he replaced the old PV.

My car is only boosting to 1.1 max, but without the PV connected it easily reached 1.4 where I lifted off!

Its fitted with a Squadra so should easily reach this...and perhaps more???

wrinx

[Evodelta]

What is the max boost the Squadra chip will give?

I don't mean the turbo, I mean the chip, what is it programmed to give?

[AlfaJack]

Electronic boost controllers are for the max power generation who like to see flashing lights and lots of knobs to twiddle on the dash, I grew out of that years ago

Oh bugger, I must be one of these
I can see your point but I thought they served more of a purpose by gauging the amount of boost against the RPM but after reading your post I am not oo worried by it.

I traded up to the standard integrale 16v turbo some while back, it's a lot stronger, gives much more power and even then it's small compared to what some people are fitting now.

I thought the 16v grale and the Q4 had the same unit. Are they both Garrett T3s?

[WhizzMan]

not likely... metal is atrracted by either the north or south pole of a magnet... when trying to attract another magnet, polarity matters...

Okay, then explain to me how an audio-speaker works? Or, even more to the point, how a monorail "maglev" train stays in the air? MAGnetic LEVitation, is what that stands for, it gets pushed away from the magnet in stead of being attracted to it. The same happens to the pin in the solenoid. If you don't believe me, blow through the pierburg valve hose, reverse polarity and see if it still opens.

[WhizzMan]

If a chip is mapped for say 1.2 bar then set the valve to 1.2, as long as you don't exceed that you will be ok.

This is where your logic flaws, the chips doesn't set it at a static maximum boost, but varies the maximum boost according to the RPM the engine is running at at that specific moment. There's a map for that. You can't run 1.4 at 1100 RPM but you can at 3000. If you set the static boost valve at 1.4 you will get massive knock at 1100 RPM and the ECU will retard spark or even stop fuel-injection to save your engine. This will cost you power at 1100 rpm and it won't gain you anything at 3000, so the net effect will be negative.

Things have come a long way in the last 20 yrs when the Pierburg valve was first fitted to these engines, a long long way. Cars made in the factory were sent all over the world and so were set to safe limits for use in high altitude areas with poor fuel, I don't live in such an area or such a time so can run my car accordingly.
The P valve tails off the boost because of this and to give the engine and turbo extended life on normal road car, but as we are discussing tuning engines for power here you can throw that analogy out of the window, the second you go for more power then you are reducing the life of the engine and it's components, I thought this was obvious so didn't mention it in my initial post....

Using tuning chips does exactly the same, but it uses a dynamic map for boost so you can get even more power out of your engine at certain RPMs without blowing it up at others.

The P valve dribbles out the boost signal to the wastegate which in turn causes wastegate creep, a soggy response and reduced max boost at high rpm,

This reduced max boost is programmed into the chip, you can program the pierburg any way you want it, creep and soggy responses are a result of inadequate tuning. The pierburg has several duty-cycle settings, the max of 100% which means full open is available too, so there is no reason you can't set it full open at certain RPMs with boost under the max allowed.

[Stuntz]

Evodelta do you have tb0385

[Evodelta]

Evodelta do you have tb0385

Yes I do, here is the full list:



HF turbo: TB0333
Garrett partnr: 466194-0001

HF 4WD: TB0338
Garrett partnr: 466384-0002

INTEGRALE 8v: TBO338
Garrett partnr: 466384-0006

INTEGRALE 16v and EVO I: TB0385
Garrett partnr: 465553-0001


EVO II: TB0367
Garrett partnr: 465103-0006



I think that the Evo II has the same turbo and ECU as the Q4 and Fiat Coupe, yes?

Yes Jack, they are all T3s, this only really relates to the style of the exhaust mounting flange, there are many different sizes within the range, the bigger 16v T3 is a direct swap for the earlier smaller one.

[juamin]

This is where your logic flaws, the chips doesn't set it at a static maximum boost, but varies the maximum boost according to the RPM the engine is running at at that specific moment. There's a map for that. You can't run 1.4 at 1100 RPM but you can at 3000. If you set the static boost valve at 1.4 you will get massive knock at 1100 RPM and the ECU will retard spark or even stop fuel-injection to save your engine. This will cost you power at 1100 rpm and it won't gain you anything at 3000, so the net effect will be negative.


Using tuning chips does exactly the same, but it uses a dynamic map for boost so you can get even more power out of your engine at certain RPMs without blowing it up at others.

This reduced max boost is programmed into the chip, you can program the pierburg any way you want it, creep and soggy responses are a result of inadequate tuning. The pierburg has several duty-cycle settings, the max of 100% which means full open is available too, so there is no reason you can't set it full open at certain RPMs with boost under the max allowed.

Im a little bit confused .
My pierburg definitively is not working . My boost is 9/10 psi at 3500rpm +/- . Now, if i install the manual boost controller and set it so the maximum PSI is 14.5 psi (1 bar). There shouldnt be any problem with that, thats right? . Obviously I cant boost 15 psi at 1500rpm because it will blow up to hell jeje. But if i mantanin the RPM VS Boost , it can be done? .
Suposing that i do this, i install the manual boost control and i set it up to 14.5 psi, the ecu will automatically set the fuel, timing ,etc based on the map, lambda and other sensor readings? . To finish, if i exceed for example, 16 psi, the ignition will cut ?


thank youuu =)

[Evodelta]

This is where your logic flaws, the chips doesn't set it at a static maximum boost, but varies the maximum boost according to the RPM the engine is running at at that specific moment. There's a map for that. You can't run 1.4 at 1100 RPM but you can at 3000. If you set the static boost valve at 1.4 you will get massive knock at 1100 RPM and the ECU will retard spark or even stop fuel-injection to save your engine. This will cost you power at 1100 rpm and it won't gain you anything at 3000, so the net effect will be negative..

Sorry, but that's rubbish, the chip is mapped to run 1.4 from around 2500 - 3000rpm to the redline, how is a boost controller making it do anything more harmful than this? Answer this please:

What precisely is going to cause 'massive knock' at 1100rpm?

Using tuning chips does exactly the same, but it uses a dynamic map for boost so you can get even more power out of your engine at certain RPMs without blowing it up at others.

This reduced max boost is programmed into the chip, you can program the pierburg any way you want it, creep and soggy responses are a result of inadequate tuning. The pierburg has several duty-cycle settings, the max of 100% which means full open is available too, so there is no reason you can't set it full open at certain RPMs with boost under the max allowed.

You are talking about remapping the car to gain different characteristics at what cost? ?500? I'm talking about a boost controller that will liven up your drive to work for ?25, that isn't comparing like for like.

It's true that a full remap is the way to go to take advantage of any engine mods, but how many of the guys in this thread are going to go to those lengths?