Boost and waterspray issues

[juamin]

My car is boost is about 9 psi and ive read that it should have about 14 psi . All hooses are Ok, vacuum hooses, pierburg connected but cant feel any overboost also. Any ideas of what`s the problem? faulty pierburg?
Any sugestions?

Also, ive been trying to make the waterspray work, the relay is on its place, ive tried joining the cables of the pressure sensor, and i cant hear the relay clicking. I think that maybe there is another relay, or the relay im checking is not the correct.
Ive tried to conect the electric pumps directly to 12v and they work great.

heeeellpppppp !!


thanks

[Brul(tm)]

Also, ive been trying to make the waterspray work, the relay is on its place, ive tried joining the cables of the pressure sensor, and i cant hear the relay clicking. I think that maybe there is another relay, or the relay im checking is not the correct.
Ive tried to conect the electric pumps directly to 12v and they work great.

heeeellpppppp !!

I have some original documentation on this subject
I'll try to look it up tonight and post the images on the web and make them available to you. It's the complete electronic diagram and the installation instruction of all the components. The only downside might be, that it's in German (not sure).

Greetings,
Marc

[juamin]

I have some original documentation on this subject
I'll try to look it up tonight and post the images on the web and make them available to you. It's the complete electronic diagram and the installation instruction of all the components. The only downside might be, that it's in German (not sure).

Greetings,
Marc

great =) please post it , it can be really usefull for others also.

[Brul(tm)]

great =) please post it , it can be really usefull for others also.

Took a bit longer than I origanally said
Unfortunately it's all in the German language and the quallity isn't that good. The positive thing is, this is a copy of the original documentation
But here are the images...






Good luck everybody.

Greetings,
Marc

[juamin]

Took a bit longer than I origanally said
Unfortunately it's all in the German language and the quallity isn't that good. The positive thing is, this is a copy of the original documentation
But here are the images...






Good luck everybody.

Greetings,
Marc

Great Info!! ill check the complete system! i hope it works!

By the way, i had the pierburg connected the wrong way i think.
The grey cable should be connected at the radiator side pin of the pierburg, thats right??
My car still gives only 10 psi =( . grhhhhhh
Ill try swapping the pierburg with another Q4 to test it.

[AlfaJack]

By the way, i had the pierburg connected the wrong way i think.
The grey cable should be connected at the radiator side pin of the pierburg, thats right??

I read that is does not matter which way round the wires are.

[WhizzMan]

If you suspect the pierburg, you could temporarily pull the hose between the pierburg and the turbo. BE CAREFUL because you have now disabled the overboost protection, so try with moderate throttle first. If it's your pierburg not working or being controlled wrong, you should now have masses of boost. Put the hose back after trying, it's better for your wallet.

[juamin]

If you suspect the pierburg, you could temporarily pull the hose between the pierburg and the turbo. BE CAREFUL because you have now disabled the overboost protection, so try with moderate throttle first. If it's your pierburg not working or being controlled wrong, you should now have masses of boost. Put the hose back after trying, it's better for your wallet.

I know but in that case , it will boost to infinite!! , i dont want to try that jeje
Maybe ill can try with a manual boost controler.
There is no other way to test the pierburg or make it produce more boost??

[WhizzMan]

I know but in that case , it will boost to infinite!! , i dont want to try that jeje
Maybe ill can try with a manual boost controler.
There is no other way to test the pierburg or make it produce more boost??

It won't boost to infinite, your ECU will hit cutoff because of the knock-sensor kicking in. (roughly at 1.5 BAR) You can drive carefully, not at full throttle with this setup for a few minutes just to test. I know BrulTM did all this when he replaced his turbo and he had trouble with the waste-gate not opening correctly. If I remember correctly, he even drove the car to work for a week. There are other methods to test more precisely, but I'd reccomend not going there until you are certain it has to do with the waste-gate and pierburg.

Other causes could be a faulty knock-sensor, stuck waste-gate, or leaks in your inlet- or outlet trajectory. If you want to test if your waste-gate is stuck, make sure you carefully measure/mark/note the length of the arm to the actuator, it should be set to exactly that and the angle to the actuator should also not be changed. You can loosen the arm and try to move the waste-gate manually (make sure the engine is cold and not running of course) to verify it's not stuck. Finding leaks works best with dishwashing-soap. Dilute slightly with water so bubbles form easily and apply on your inlet trajectory. Any leak should now produce bubbles.

[juamin]

It won't boost to infinite, your ECU will hit cutoff because of the knock-sensor kicking in. (roughly at 1.5 BAR) You can drive carefully, not at full throttle with this setup for a few minutes just to test. I know BrulTM did all this when he replaced his turbo and he had trouble with the waste-gate not opening correctly. If I remember correctly, he even drove the car to work for a week. There are other methods to test more precisely, but I'd reccomend not going there until you are certain it has to do with the waste-gate and pierburg.

Other causes could be a faulty knock-sensor, stuck waste-gate, or leaks in your inlet- or outlet trajectory. If you want to test if your waste-gate is stuck, make sure you carefully measure/mark/note the length of the arm to the actuator, it should be set to exactly that and the angle to the actuator should also not be changed. You can loosen the arm and try to move the waste-gate manually (make sure the engine is cold and not running of course) to verify it's not stuck. Finding leaks works best with dishwashing-soap. Dilute slightly with water so bubbles form easily and apply on your inlet trajectory. Any leak should now produce bubbles.

Great thanks WhizzMan ill try all those things. There is any procedure to check the knock sensor ?

[WhizzMan]

Great thanks WhizzMan ill try all those things. There is any procedure to check the knock sensor ?

I have no more clue than you do. I presume there's a procedure in the workshop manual that describes it. I personally would pull the plug and see if there's a difference because I'm too lazy to thumb through a PDF. However, it might be wiser to read first and find out if there is a better way to do it. Of course, be careful, the knock-sensor is there for a reason and if you disable it you disable a safety-catch for your engine's health. Just try briefly if there's a difference, don't combine with other "tests" like pulling the pierburg-hose etc.

Oh, another question, are you certain you have a lack of power? Could it be just your indicator being off? It wouldn't be the first time someone started hunting a problem and found out later that the problem was in his measuring equipment and not in the car.

[Brul(tm)]

If I remember correctly, he even drove the car to work for a week.

I believe I drove the car for almost two weeks due to a lack of time

But you have to be really carefull!! Yes the pressure sensor will give you a fuel cut.. This moment comes very quickly. You really need to be gentle with the throtle!! Don't rev!! Drive very careful and accelerate very slow!! If you have a turbo meter you will see why
I drove mine on the sound and feeling I never drove faster than approxemately 75 KM/H The ECU was continiously taking over otherwise....

Greetings,
Marc

[wrinx]

If you suspect the pierburg, you could temporarily pull the hose between the pierburg and the turbo. BE CAREFUL because you have now disabled the overboost protection, so try with moderate throttle first. If it's your pierburg not working or being controlled wrong, you should now have masses of boost. Put the hose back after trying, it's better for your wallet.

Did this today and wow!!!!

What a difference It made my car what I thought it should be....much more responsive, much faster to boost and saw 1.4bar before I even realised!!!

Soooo, Pierburg or actuator? I know the actuator moves.

wrinx

[AlfaJack]

Did this today and wow!!!!

What a difference It made my car what I thought it should be....much more responsive, much faster to boost and saw 1.4bar before I even realised!!!

Soooo, Pierburg or actuator? I know the actuator moves.

wrinx

Nice isnt it, it made the drivability much better on mine! Its why I am going to get the electronic boost controller

[Evodelta]

Nice isnt it, it made the drivability much better on mine! Its why I am going to get the electronic boost controller

A cheaper alternative is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERTEK-BOOST...QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure you buy one with two inlets/outlets and not three and most importantly DON'T exceed the max boost level which your chip and engine is mapped for.

I can't speak for this particular make, but I have a similar (cheaper) one fitted and the boost comes on nice and strong, particularly mid range and on the motorway where I can get full boost just by squeezing the throttle a bit. It holds max boost at the redline and doesn't tail off, the only downside is fuel consumption drops as you will no doubt be using more full boost....

[WhizzMan]

A cheaper alternative is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERTEK-BOOST...QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure you buy one with two inlets/outlets and not three and most importantly DON'T exceed the max boost level which your chip and engine is mapped for.

I can't speak for this particular make, but I have a similar (cheaper) one fitted and the boost comes on nice and strong, particularly mid range and on the motorway where I can get full boost just by squeezing the throttle a bit. It holds max boost at the redline and doesn't tail off, the only downside is fuel consumption drops as you will no doubt be using more full boost....

Are you saying that a static boost for all RPMs is better than one that can give you the max boost your engine can handle depending on the RPM? To be safe, you have to set this static controller to the lowest boost (not the maximum as you suggest) allowed by the ECU at any RPM. This way you can't benefit from higher boost at other RPMs and that way you will lose power at those RPMs. This is why they put all the complicated pierburg valve equipment on in stead of a simple valve.

[AlfaJack]

A cheaper alternative is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERTEK-BOOST...QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure you buy one with two inlets/outlets and not three and most importantly DON'T exceed the max boost level which your chip and engine is mapped for.

I can't speak for this particular make, but I have a similar (cheaper) one fitted and the boost comes on nice and strong, particularly mid range and on the motorway where I can get full boost just by squeezing the throttle a bit. It holds max boost at the redline and doesn't tail off, the only downside is fuel consumption drops as you will no doubt be using more full boost....

I have been warned off these for the reasons Whizz mentions - the price difference is nice though, one tenth of the price!

[AlfaJack]

Where is the knock sensor in the Q4?

[Stuntz]

in the most fucked up place ! under the intake manifold betwen the 2. and 3. cylinder.

[AlfaJack]

Ah, another inaccessible part of the Q4

Going to have to sort out that swear filter

[WhizzMan]

Don't put a swear filter on, you won't be able to follow the conversation if you only let the swearing through.

Oh, regarding the water-spray not working: could it be you don't achieve enough turbo-pressure for the ECU to activate it?

[Brul(tm)]

could it be you don't achieve enough turbo-pressure for the ECU to activate it?

You will need at least 0,6 bar to activate the pressure sensor.

Greetings,
Marc

[juamin]

You will need at least 0,6 bar to activate the pressure sensor.

Greetings,
Marc

yes , thats right.
but ive read that to check if the pumps and system works, you have to join both cables of the presure sensor, and the pumps will start working. but that didnt happen in my case, I cant hear any relay ticking =( .
I can see that the relay is on its place ( i hope im checking the right relay) . Ive tried connecting the pumps direct to 12v and they work fine.


So if someone knows how to make the waterspray work i would be verry happy

[Steve Webb]

So if someone knows how to make the waterspray work i would be verry happy

You have seen this page haven't you?

http://www.berlinasportivo.com/Techn...waterspray.php

Steve

[AlfaJack]

I never got mine to work, so I made a manual override for it, a switch by the gear stick - I just use it if I do a track day