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wrinx
08-11-07, 23:49
Credit goes to Sub555 and Cream on 155.org.

You will need......

25mm o/d spacers approximately 8-8.5mm thick (best to measure when you can set the caliper in position). I turned these on my lathe but you could just use a selection of washers!
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/SP_A0448.jpg

204mm Fiat Coupe Turbo front discs
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/SP_A0428.jpg

166 (2.5 or 3.0) calipers (same as Fiat Coupe I think). They are silver but don't take long to paint and the graphics came from ebay. I also remade the bottom pipe with copper as the calipers were about eight years old and it looked tatty!
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Hosted/SP_A0355.jpg

Mounting brackets, the holes in my brackets are larger, for 14mm and 12mm bolts iirc. You will need the original 14mm 166 bolts, trying to find this size outside of Alfa is hard! Then I also used 12mm mounting bolts. Brackets have to be custom made...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/CNCdrawingfor166caliperbracket.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/SP_A0434.jpg

I also needed 15mm hubcentric wheel spacers to clear my wheels, 17" wheels will probably be needed although SOME 16" will fit. 16" Speedlines will NOT fit.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Hosted/SP_A0365.jpg

Finished brakes
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/SP_A0433.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/SP_A0438.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/SP_A0456.jpg


This is not a cheap modification but the results are REALLY impressive!!!

wrinx

Juan AR155Q4
09-11-07, 15:02
Great modification!!!
Is breaking distance shorter? r just improves thermal fatigue?

wrinx
09-11-07, 15:12
Braking distance is much shorter and the "bite" is instant! I still have to sort out the rear bias valve so the whole system can only get better.

The brakes on my 156 JTD now feel bad :rolleyes:

wrinx

AJ
09-11-07, 16:48
Good job, bet they make a difference! I guess the 155 hubs are similar to the Fiat 16vt hubs, I used radial calipers and then had a square bracket made to mount them.

Where did you get the hub centric spacers in 4x98 pcd?

wrinx
09-11-07, 17:47
There's a full secondhand set on ebay now HERE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Alfa-Fiat-Lancia-HubCentric-Wheel-Spacers-Bolts_W0QQitemZ300168483775QQihZ020QQcategoryZ1037 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

...and THIS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/15mm-Hubcentric-Spacer-Kit-Alfa-Fiat-Lancia-7947_W0QQitemZ220163516885QQihZ012QQcategoryZ12215 4QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) is like the set I bought, although I've got 100pcd :)

wrinx

Varypodaros
16-11-07, 09:01
Which is the size of your wheels? 16'' or 17''????

wrinx
16-11-07, 09:50
I have 17" wheels. Team Dynamics RVO II.

But this upgrade fits under the Team Dynamics 16" RVO I (Sub555 ran with these) with about 1mm of clearance!!!

wrinx

axaQ42
18-03-08, 08:01
I have a few questions...

Are the calipers form the 166 2.0 V6 turbo the same?
and the disc is from which coupe?2.0 20v turbo or 16v turbo??

wrinx
18-03-08, 08:18
Discs are from a 20v turbo and yes, the calipers are the same for a 166 2.0 Turbo (according to ePER).

wrinx

Michael_kal
18-03-08, 12:19
Hello wrinx,
why 16" speedline (black 5 spoke) will not fit, is the radial clearence the Issue or the axial clearence, is it possible with spacers to fit them?
Regards Michael

wrinx
18-03-08, 19:43
I think it might not fit BOTH ways :(

Someone on 155.org (Speedy) tried to fit them under 16" speedlines but there's no chance. e ended up using Wilwoods.

I am seriously thinking of changing these now!!!! I have bought a set of Zender Milanos and these will not fit underneath :(

Wilwoods would have to be used with standard 284mm discs...but these brakes are SOOOOOOO good, it's a very hard decision to make :(

wrinx

markgq4
27-03-08, 12:41
Great thread mr wrinx.
:thumbs:


I have looked at wilwood calipers lots of times as they really arent that dear, and do have a good reputation,
but i always get stuck on which version and size would be the best for a 1300 kg car ???

ecl
29-03-08, 11:45
how much wider is the bigger caliper? i have a set of calipers, discs and hubs from a 20vt coupe at hand here, but im not sure about my wheel clearance.

Eivind

cuore_sportivo_155
30-03-08, 17:24
i believe you need about 65mm from the disc face to the spokes of the weel....

wrinx
30-03-08, 17:56
Sounds familiar...I wrote the measurements down recently but have lost them!

wrinx

WhizzMan
03-04-08, 22:37
the 166 calipers differ from the 20VT coupe and 156/147GTA.

on V6 and Q4 the uprights from the 20VT will fit with the calipers and discs from the 20VT/GTA. However, you will need the 2.1 quick steering-rack from the widebody to make it all work and fit and steer properly. You could convert the narrow-body rack, but the 2.1 rack is much nicer anyway. The calipers from the 20VT/GTA stick out even more, most 17" wheels will need spacers.

D2 racing taiwan has 6pod calipers with mounting kits that will fit the original discs (284*25mm). These kits are actually advertised on their site for the 155

axaQ42
28-05-08, 12:00
Hi!

Does anyone here knows if the calipers from a lancia kappa 2.0 20V turbo are the same as those from an 166?

I saw in catalogues for discs that they share the same front discs and as i asked those one from the lancia is also Brembo.

WhizzMan
28-05-08, 12:28
Pictures and measurements would help.

axaQ42
28-05-08, 12:33
Thats the problem ...becouse i only know that they are 4-pot brembos with the same disc size,offset....The brake pads are the same also i checked in the omp brake pads catalogue.

Even the year when FIAT started to put this calipers on the 166 matches with lancia's :)

wrinx
28-05-08, 18:28
ePER does not list any other car for the Kappa 20v brakes...which is odd, but they could still share pads I guess.

wrinx

cuore_sportivo_155
29-05-08, 11:43
maybe they have a different colour or print on them, that would give them another number in eper... don't want lancia on my calipers ;)

axaQ42
29-05-08, 13:32
Could please someone post here the measurements(the distance between the mounting holes and so on.....) and some extra pics of the 166 calipers?

I just got the calipers from the lancia and they look very very similar or the same....so i must see a few pictures and measurements so i can verify more precisely .

Thnx


P.S The print on them is just Brembo and the colour is black.The part number for the calipes for 166 is ....735266839 for the lancia is 735266838 :)


I will post some pics later.

axaQ42
29-05-08, 18:33
Ok guys here are the pics of the calipers from the Lancia kappa 2.0 20V turbo.

Now those who know the calipers from the 166 do this look familiar or not:
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0111.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=68&u=11794512)
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0112.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=69&u=11794512)
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0113.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=70&u=11794512)
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0114.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=71&u=11794512)
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0115.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=72&u=11794512)
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0210.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=73&u=11794512)
http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/79/45/12/img_0211.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=74&u=11794512)

wrinx
29-05-08, 19:07
They look the same to me....only difference is the tiny writing and logo in the first picture.

wrinx

axaQ42
29-05-08, 19:15
Another mistery solved :D

Lancia kappa 2.0 20V turbo front brake calipers are the same as the 166 it at least look like that :D

markgq4
05-06-08, 15:17
bloody hell!
that caliper looks MASSIVE !!



or perhaps you have little, tiny little feet ?



:D

Stuntz
05-06-08, 15:21
he is nearly 2m tall and his feet are size 47 i think ( he gets paddles to go whit the boats of the shoes) :D

jimnielsen
29-07-08, 07:26
Has anybody bought or installed this:

http://www.d2racingsport.com/brake_286.htm

I was going to implement the 166 calipers solution for the front brakes but..

a. here the calipers 166 calipers are rare and will cost me $750.00
b. you cant get the fiat coupe vt20 disks here
c. I need to keep wheel size to 16" and I don't think I can get wheels that I am SURE will fit...

so at $2000 the complete 6 pot solution from D2 that includes disk rotors, calipers, brake lines and even pads looks cheaper and more certain.

what do you all think? I'd rather not be the first guinea pig!

RMB-Racing
30-07-08, 01:26
Well Jim...

From you point of view, I can see that you have some reasonable arguments to buy the kit.

Here in Europe, its not a problem for us to get all the bits to make our own kits with the calipers from 166 or Coupe 20VT.

But with you problems as you referred too, I would go for the kit!

By the way - have you checked the FIA homolegation for the 155 Q4 - is it allowed to have six pots caliper on the car...? (if you are going to use it as a racecar)

jimnielsen
30-07-08, 04:02
They don't bother too much with the niceties of FIA documentation over here.. Brakes are essentially "free" except no carbon disks....

jimn~

Q4Jan
30-07-08, 04:42
Maybe we could do a group buy on these?
As 286 fits in the 16 inch wheels?
Depending on price i could be tempted. :rolleyes:

wrinx
30-07-08, 08:50
My plan was to use Wilwoods inside the Zender Milanos I've got as the 166 calipers will have to go :(

wrinx

Ditlev
30-07-08, 10:31
My plan was to use Wilwoods inside the Zender Milanos I've got as the 166 calipers will have to go :(

wrinx

Or you could just sell me the Milanos, and problem is gone.. ;)

wrinx
30-07-08, 13:53
Yes, I see that could be a possible solution....mmmm, let me think about it.....





...NO! :fp:

wrinx

axaQ42
08-08-08, 07:58
Ok when we tried to mount the calipers we noticed that the brake pad "looks" over the brake disc for a few mm!So the braking effect is not 100% plus its thougher to find a set of 16" rims that fit becouse the calipers stick out too much(they stick out up too much not out :)).

We are going to try it to solve this in a way...

Gery83
10-08-08, 17:58
Hi!

Does any of you guys changed the master cylinder too, or you use the original one?

AlfaJack
10-08-08, 18:14
Not heard of anyone upgrading so far...

Gery83
10-08-08, 18:54
Thanks!

jimnielsen
12-08-08, 07:07
Can someone who is familiar with the brake upgrades that involves using the fiat 20V front disks have a look at picture and tell me if these are the correct ones to use? Do the measurements look correct - I am expecting that they will be just a "bolt-on"?? I am planning on using Wilwood calipers so that they will fit inside my 16" speedline wheels with these disk rotors. Feedback appreciated!

jimn~

wrinx
12-08-08, 12:02
Yup, them's the ones, 20v turbo 305mm discs :smile:

...and yes, they bolt straight on. I'm also thinking about Wilwoods so am interested in how you go on and which ones you choose. Looked like it was going to be very tight inside the Milanos I've got.

wrinx

jimnielsen
12-08-08, 12:36
I am not married to the idea of the Wilwood's but I need a caliper that will suit this rotor that is light and physically smaller than the massive 166 type brembos. That way I can continue to use 16" wheels and tyres that are 590mm dia (in 205/45/16R).

Any suggestions about specific calipers appreciated - or even just model of wilwood - there seems to be so many...


jimn~

wrinx
12-08-08, 17:38
I was looking at Dynalites iirc, but for 17" wheels...I was also thinking of using the standard 280 discs...think you may struggle to get both 305 discs and Wilwoods under Speedlines???

All measurements are on their website :)

wrinx

jimnielsen
20-08-08, 00:09
Wrinx - how did you adapt the 100pcd onto the Q4?

.....

There's a full secondhand set on ebay now HERE

...and THIS is like the set I bought, although I've got 100pcd :)

wrinx

.....

wrinx
20-08-08, 08:38
Wobble bolts.

Some people don't like them but I haven't had any problems.

wrinx

jimnielsen
20-08-08, 10:56
any chance of a pic or diagram that shows how you used them? I am going to have to use 4 x 100 rims as well...

AlfaJack
20-08-08, 11:20
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/467659/20306697/330699906.jpg

Got the pic from this thread on AO (also and Aussie with a 155, he seems to know your car):
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-155/130531-shinys-155-project.html

wrinx
20-08-08, 13:12
Strange bolts, the cup is loose fitting one side but the top appears to locate in a centre cup which would prevent them from moving properly???

The ones I have don't have the lip around the bolt, allowing it to move freely.

wrinx

jimnielsen
20-08-08, 13:33
Thanks Alfajack! - I'll enquire with him directly! Thanks for taking the trouble to post the pic.. now i can believe they actually exist! :)

jimn~

AlfaJack
20-08-08, 14:16
Strange bolts, the cup is loose fitting one side but the top appears to locate in a centre cup which would prevent them from moving properly???

The ones I have don't have the lip around the bolt, allowing it to move freely.

wrinx

The ones in the pic are the same as mine. The lip bit just seems to stop the wobbly bit falling off the bolt...

axaQ42
20-08-08, 22:03
jimnielsen:

If you would like to fit spacers(let say 20mm) with 4x100 wheels then the problem starts :)

wrinx
20-08-08, 23:37
Why? My 15mm spacers with 100pcd are fine...

wrinx

axaQ42
21-08-08, 07:46
I have 20mm spacers and 4x100 wheels and the problem is to get longer wooble bolts then the original length(you need 5cm,original 3cm).
I had to order them in italy and paid for 8 bolts 70 eu(approx. 60gbp)

wrinx
21-08-08, 08:44
Ouch! No problem sourcing them for the 15mm spacers. Think the company, on eBay, had longer bolts too but it was while ago.

wrinx

jimnielsen
21-08-08, 08:56
Wrinx - is this (in the pic..) the style of bracket that you used? Have just purchased these enormous 166 calipers to go with the Fiat 305mm disks. No IDEA where I am going to find suitable wheels....

axaQ42
21-08-08, 09:29
First with these brackets and 305mm disk the pads don't cover the entire disk surface they "look over" the disk for a few mm.Not good.We modified the calipers by making a notch and made the holes in the brackets 2mm more "in" so the pads cover the entire disk.

If you put 310mm disk from the 166 or lancia kappa turbo then there is no problem with that but you probably won t find any suitable wheels to go with that.

We barely managed to squeeze OZ racing F1 16" with modified brackets but there is still the problem with the balancing weights and we hope to solve this problems with slimmer ones.

jimnielsen
21-08-08, 10:22
Thanks for this updated info axaQ42 - No I don't want this "look over" either...

could you please explain this in more detail so that I will know exactly what must be done..

....We modified the calipers by making a notch and made the holes in the brackets 2mm more "in" so the pads cover the entire disk.

appreciate you input, cheers, jimn~

also.. with the OZ Racing F1 wheels (which as far as I can tell from their website are no longer available) did you need any spacer at all? (aside from the std 4.7mm one)?


thanks again..

axaQ42
21-08-08, 10:38
I will post the pictures as soon as everything is hopefully correctly assembled.The notch on the caliper must be made near the mounting holes becouse the calipers hits in the upright and becouse of that it cant go more innward.
Here where the problem is:
http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/11/79/45/12/hpim0310.jpg

With the OZ F1 i didnt need any additional spacers to fit.


The easy solutions to that are simple:
-get some 17" and don t care if there is around 5mm of each pad unused OR
-get some 17" and buy alfa 166 brake disc and make 4*98 holes in it like that
http://shrani.si/f/1J/EO/2Py47Wrv/img00029.jpg
OR
-find 16" that fit and again don t care if there is around 5mm of each pad unused

jimnielsen
21-08-08, 10:51
Thanks - I understand the Issues better now - thank you for going to the trouble of putting up the pics. I want to keep 16" wheels so that I can keep the 590mm diameter that you get with 205/45/16's. I will make a mock up bracket out of plywood and see what I have to do. I really don't mind if I have to use spacers if I can keep them to under 15mm.

cheers, jimn~

axaQ42
21-08-08, 11:26
There is still one solution...find suitable 16" +310mm disc.

jimnielsen
25-08-08, 07:59
I have made a bracket that with a tiny bit of adjustment on the caliper body and the upright mounting ears goes together with zero underhang or overhang of the top edge of the pad.

Yes - I know its just wood - a steel one will follow tomorrow, and yes, I guess that caliper is on upside down - but good enough for a pic!

jimn~

axaQ42
25-08-08, 09:11
Now thats looking good!

Practicly almost equal as we did....we just took some material from the caliper body and made the holes on the brackets(the brackets that are supplied here on the forum) 2mm more "in" and it was enough for zero underhang or overhang.

As long as it works :D

wrinx
25-08-08, 09:47
Do the 16s fit now?

wrinx

axaQ42
25-08-08, 10:32
Yes by 1mm probably :) The only problem are the balancing wieights so we will use slimmer ones or put them on the outside(i dont care about the looks as long as ti brakes good hehe)

jimnielsen
25-08-08, 11:10
I have also found some 16x7 ET38 4x98 PCD wheels that will fit. They are cast and weigh 8.5kg each - but they will still end up as light as if I was using forged 100x4 PCD wheels and a steel spacer. Basically to make the 166 caliper work on the Fiat vt20 305mm rotor you need a wheel that has 42mm clearance in front of the disk face from radius 90 - radius 160. Many 16" wheels will fit radially but few on the caliper face. I will probably end up with a spacer between 3-7mm depending on the face clearance i go for.

jimn~

wrinx
26-08-08, 00:00
Interesting....as far as I know there are only a couple of 16" wheels which fit over the Brembos, but that doesn't mean there aren't more!

Do you think your amended bracket has made the difference?

Pics please... ;)

wrinx

axaQ42
26-08-08, 06:42
The brackets mod definitly makes the difference.Before the wheel didnt fit over the brembos no it does:).Actually its not that big of a mod but enough to make certain wheels fit but the most important the pad cover completly the brake rotor.

jimnielsen
26-08-08, 06:49
A few more pics - I have made a metal bracket.. I will add more symmetry to it later :)

Also here are pics of how I adjusted the caliper and the rear face of the caliper mounting ears.

You can see that the speedlines fit (radially) but I would need a 20mm (total including the std 5.0 mm one..) spacer to get them to be off the caliper faces.

The pads sit flush with the disk edge. I moved the "large" holes 5mm closer to the small ones on the bracket.

jimn~

wrinx
26-08-08, 10:26
20mm is quite a lot and would put most people off I think...but if it works for your race car that's good :)

At least you've proven it can be done...

wrinx

jimnielsen
26-08-08, 10:58
nah - 20mm is too much for me too! I just wanted to see what they looked like and what the limiting factors are. I have my eye on some wheels that will fit with no spacer at all - though I may use a spacer up to 12 or so mm to increase the track (and the back too) but not too much..

cheers, jimn~

jimnielsen
26-08-08, 11:09
umm.. and does the brake line that is standard on the Q4 attach direct without modification to the 166 caliper - or - do I have to use the 166 brake lines that came with the caliper/ In that case does that brake line attach direct to the place where the original one connects?

thanks - jimn~

AlfaJack
26-08-08, 11:17
Standard 155 line should be fine :)

axaQ42
26-08-08, 12:08
I installed braided ones that are like the standard one..they fit no problem...almost too long hehe

wrinx
26-08-08, 12:27
Standard lines are fine :smile:

wrinx

155'Ringman
26-08-08, 12:42
As the chaps said, standard ones are fine but you have a RH caliper on the LH upright in your next to last piccy...

jimnielsen
26-08-08, 13:11
Ive been using that caliper for bracket measurements for both sides.. The calipers better be symmetrical or I am in trouble, anyway, I am making the other bracket tomorrow - so I will find out soon ...

jimn~

jimnielsen
09-09-08, 03:22
Hi. I now have found a 16" wheel that I can buy locally that fits with the 166 brembo calipers. They are 16 x 7 ET38. Called Sirroco - and available blank so that they can be drilled 4x98.

They would not have fitted with "original bracket" however as there is only 3.5mm clearance around the internal rim. Modifying the bracket so that there is no overhang on the pads puts the caliper 5mm closer to the hub centre - that's why it fits!

I am going to paint them before I put them on... any ideas for color?

Question - what is the official size of the hub ring (that the wheel sits on..) I measure it as 57.9?

Thanks.. Jimm~

arjunior45
09-09-08, 10:41
I am going to paint them before I put them on... any ideas for color?

Thanks.. Jimm~

Why do you want to paint them? Silver like color make a contrast with a totally red car, don't you think? I believe they will give the impression of bigger dia too.
"Nero Inferno" will make them look smaller in dia.

Nick

AlfaJack
09-09-08, 10:43
Question - what is the official size of the hub ring (that the wheel sits on..) I measure it as 57.9?

Thanks.. Jimm~

58.1 is what I have read. I would go for Anthracite :)

#84
09-09-08, 13:06
I haven't followed the entire thread, but I ran with original Speedlines and 20 mm spacers with my Porsche calipers and it worked until I pushed the car in the corners, then the tyre touched the wheel arc.

Speedline Superleggera is the best 16" rim I have found when it comes to lateral space for big brakes. But balance weights has to be placed offset the caliper or the wheel won't go round....

An advice: Monoblock calipers are more compact than the cheaper ones Alfa Romeo uses. That is why I went for 993 GT3 / 996 Turbo calipers. But the Boxster S calipers are even better since they are designed for a thinner brake disc (30 mm).

/A

Xti
25-12-08, 11:40
Guys, have you any idea about the Fiat Coupe/ Alfa 166 (2.5 or 3.0) Brembo callipers should fit under 16" OZ Superturismos or should have 17" ? Thanks in advance.

I know I should be the one to make some measurements but honestly I don't know how to do that.

Many greetings,
Cristian

kepsus
25-12-08, 12:01
i am using the "fiat coupe" 20vt 4pod brembo brakes

wrinx
25-12-08, 13:12
Guys, have you any idea about the Fiat Coupe/ Alfa 166 (2.5 or 3.0) Brembo callipers should fit under 16" OZ Superturismos or should have 17" ? Thanks in advance.

I know I should be the one to make some measurements but honestly I don't know how to do that.

Many greetings,
Cristian

They will fit under some 16" wheels, but not many!

I know they go under RVO-I with no other modifications but NOT RVO-II because I had to use 15mm spacers to clear the spokes on 17"!

You might be better going for 17s...but the offset is also important or you'll need spacers too.


wrinx

wrinx
25-12-08, 13:13
i am using the "fiat coupe" 20vt 4pod brembo brakes

But which wheels?

wrinx

Xti
25-12-08, 19:36
But which wheels?

wrinx

Neither I am sure yet.
Kepsus please let us know, thanks.


They will fit under some 16" wheels, but not many!

I know they go under RVO-I with no other modifications but NOT RVO-II because I had to use 15mm spacers to clear the spokes on 17"!

You might be better going for 17s...but the offset is also important or you'll need spacers too.


wrinx

Thanks wrinx.

Yes it's hard to find 16" wheels for that Brembo callipers but for some reasons I'd prefere not to go for 17". I'll keep searching for a while.

I was thinking at OZ Superturismos because I like this wheels veeery much and besides that they have kinda convex spokes which makes me hope it will let the Brembos under. Just that these callipers could still be too big (in height) for 16".

OZ Superturismos have ET37 for 16" and ET35 for 17". When it comes to my problem I assume a lower ET is better ET.

I don't know how the 17" OZ Superturismos will fit under a widebody 155 Q4 without touching the wheel arches. I wanted to ask Alfajack about this as I know he runs on 17" OZ ST but I remember now his Q4 is a skiny one.

So many questions...
Thanks guys, any suggestions are well appreciated.

Cheers,
Cristian

jimnielsen
25-12-08, 21:26
Re 16" wheels for the Q4. I did not find it too hard to find 16" wheels for the fiat/166 brake combo - the problem is made harder by two things...

(a). most of the wheels that would fit are not available in 4x98 PCD (meaning more complexity in making the system work)

(b). in the original drawing for the adapter brackets - the calipers overhang the rotor by 5mm. I modified the brackets and the calipers as outlined by AXAQ42 (earlier in this thread) so that there is no overhang - this brings the calipers 5mm closer to the hub center to that you can have a wheel that is 10mm smaller radially and will still fit. The wheels I used would not have fitted in this dimension using the original bracket.

AS far as face clearance is concerned - (the original speedlines have very little) - the 16" wheels I am using now cleared the faces without even using the standard 5mm spacer.

cuore_sportivo_155
25-12-08, 21:56
what is the available space radially in your rims?

I have Kosei R-tune double racers, and on first glance they will fit (offset is not a problem) but with mm's to spare radially, the bracket design would definately be of importance...

Xti
25-12-08, 22:06
Re 16" wheels for the Q4. I did not find it too hard to find 16" wheels for the fiat/166 brake combo - the problem is made harder by two things...

(a). most of the wheels that would fit are not available in 4x98 PCD (meaning more complexity in making the system work)

(b). in the original drawing for the adapter brackets - the calipers overhang the rotor by 5mm. I modified the brackets and the calipers as outlined by AXAQ42 (earlier in this thread) so that there is no overhang - this brings the calipers 5mm closer to the hub center to that you can have a wheel that is 10mm smaller radially and will still fit. The wheels I used would not have fitted in this dimension using the original bracket.

AS far as face clearance is concerned - (the original speedlines have very little) - the 16" wheels I am using now cleared the faces without even using the standard 5mm spacer.

I've been reading the whole thread more careful this time and I understand now your point. Thanks for reminding me some important details and of course to all of you guys for sharing your experience. This wil help me to decide more easily when choosing the wheels for Q4.


what is the available space radially in your rims?

I have Kosei R-tune double racers, and on first glance they will fit (offset is not a problem) but with mm's to spare radially, the bracket design would definately be of importance...

I don't have the new rims so I can't do the measurements yet.
For the moment I have the original 15" Speedlines and I want to change them just have to decide between 16" and 17" OZ Superturismo WRC.

Is your Kosei 17" ? What ET ?
Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Cristian

jimnielsen
26-12-08, 03:47
Radial clearance on the wheels I am using for the 16" fiat/166 setup is 4mm.

Q4Jan
26-12-08, 06:31
No help in 16 inch here. But i do have some nice 17 inch.

http://forum.berlinasportivo.org/showthread.php?t=1227

Rimstock pro race 1.2 17 inch but these clear a lot!

And light+ bridgestone re050 available. (17 inch+)

Have to get my brembo big brake kit fitted. But still waiting for them to be drilled 4x98.... :doh:

axaQ42
26-12-08, 14:20
I have this on my Q4 with the brembos from 166 and they fit perfectly(16" ) with no spacer at all.

Cromodora Sparco:
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8779/pict0073xf6.jpg

wrinx
26-12-08, 16:16
Mmm, nice...piccy of them fitted?

wrinx

cuore_sportivo_155
26-12-08, 17:09
Is your Kosei 17" ? What ET ?
Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Cristian[/QUOTE]

16*7 (et28 i believe...).

cuore_sportivo_155
26-12-08, 17:11
Radial clearance on the wheels I am using for the 16" fiat/166 setup is 4mm.

you don't know the inside diameter? I'll measure my kosei 16" tomorrow

axaQ42
26-12-08, 17:35
Mmm, nice...piccy of them fitted?

wrinx

I m afraid not becouse the car is still in work(bodyshop) but i have made a photoshop pic
how it will look like(note the car will be pracitcly the same as on the pic)
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/42/sparcofelgeku0.jpg

jimnielsen
26-12-08, 22:45
The inside diameter is:

360mm - measured on top of the wheel boss
370mm - measured at the mid point of where the caliper sits in these wheels
390mm - measured at the outside edge.

My wheels are 16x7 ET38 and I am using the standard 5mm spacer that comes with the car. The spacer gives you more radial room for the caliper as with these (and most other) wheels the internal diameter gets larger as you move to the rear of the wheel.

Realistically you need approx 364 mm minimum to fit over the calipers and still have a 1mm or so of clearance - but you only need this much on the part that meets the tallest part of the caliper (not the bit that is actually closest to the boss....

jimn~

cuore_sportivo_155
27-12-08, 16:33
i've fitted a caliper over a disc, and inserted this inside the wheel, and everything lined up where it should, nothing touched that shouldn't... so it'll depend on the bracket design if it'll work or not... forgot to go out to the garage today, but tomorrow is car-business day, as I've informed swimbo...

Gery83
01-05-10, 14:24
If anyone is interested, here is my new drawing for 166 calipers with 304mm coup? discs.
It's not tested yet, just with wood.
It takes a few weeks to get them manufactured, after that I can tell you more.

1481

1482

wrinx
01-05-10, 23:01
This one has been tested by many 155 owners ;)

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wrinx/Personal/Technical/166caliperbracket.pdf

From memory the holes sizes are wrong on the drawing though, they should be something like 14mm and 12.5mm!

wrinx
wrinx

Gery83
02-05-10, 10:07
This one has been tested by many 155 owners ;)

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wrinx/Personal/Technical/166caliperbracket.pdf

From memory the holes sizes are wrong on the drawing though, they should be something like 14mm and 12.5mm!

wrinx
wrinx

Yes, but with this one, the brake pads are hanging over the discs a few millimeters, so I placed the caliper mount holes 2mm nearer to the other ones.
The hole sizes are good, because I use a special screw to mount the bracket to the wheelhub.

1483

jimnielsen
02-05-10, 23:12
I wish I had thought to use bolts like that - it would have made the mounting simpler, especially when it comes to fitting and removing them..

wrinx
02-05-10, 23:43
Yes, but with this one, the brake pads are hanging over the discs a few millimeters, so I placed the caliper mount holes 2mm nearer to the other ones.

Yes, you're right they do...might change mine to this shape one day ;)

wrinx

Gery83
12-05-10, 21:43
Finished bracket, made with high pressure water cutter cnc.
1485

jimnielsen
12-05-10, 22:23
Gery, have you made a bracket that has no overhang at the top of the disk? I used the 'original drawing' and then modified it so that there was no overhang, but I would like to get a definitive drawing with measurements for a 'no overhang' bracket..

jim.

Gery83
12-05-10, 22:40
Gery, have you made a bracket that has no overhang at the top of the disk? I used the 'original drawing' and then modified it so that there was no overhang, but I would like to get a definitive drawing with measurements for a 'no overhang' bracket..

jim.

The truth is, that I didn't tried this one, only it's wood model.
The holes on this are 2mm nearer to each other, and there should be no overhang.
But tomorrow I'll try them, and post some photos.

Gery83
13-05-10, 13:12
So here is the first try.
There is something I can't understand.
There should be no overhang, but there is 4mm.
But the reason I can't understand it why, is that the pad fits perfectly on the inner circle of the disc.
Is it possible that I have a bigger pad than usual?
It is bigger than the disc's surface with 4milimeters.

:cry::doh: Why???

1491

1494

1495

1496

1497

1498

1499

AlfaJack
13-05-10, 18:50
What size are 166 discs? They must be bigger than 304mm or they have a smaller "hub" area?

AlfaJack
13-05-10, 18:55
I checked and 166 discs are 310mm x 28mm so the pads will accommodate this.

jimnielsen
13-05-10, 23:47
Gery..you are using the fiat vt20 305mm rotors (disks) - not the 310mm 166 rotors?

When I made up my system for this same mod (using the 305mm disks), a LOT of fettling was required on the brackets to get to zero overhang. I am started with about 4mm overhang. You have to grind away some of the actual caliper rear face to get the caliper to move radially closer to the centre of the hub. So that you don't have to grind too much off the caliper, you also need to grind a little off the rear face of the attachment arms on the upright. See the pics of how I did this. It takes a lot of trial fitting to get it perfect.

jim.

Gery83
14-05-10, 06:24
Ok, thanks!
So this way I have two choices.
- Use it with 304mm discs, and leave 4-5mm pad unused
- Get 166 310mm discs, and make new holes on it....

Gery83
14-05-10, 06:28
The only problem is, that I only can get this type of 166 discs with 10 holes.
How are they mounted on the 166?

1503

jimnielsen
14-05-10, 08:56
why can't you just modify your bracket to fit the 305mm rotor better?

Gery83
14-05-10, 09:12
why can't you just modify your bracket to fit the 305mm rotor better?

Because now it fits perfectly on the inner side.

1504


- I don't want to grind off the caliper, to make it fit "more in"
- I don't want an overhang on the inner side, I think it's better to have it on the outside.
I will probably grind off the side of the brakepad this way:

1505

jimnielsen
15-05-10, 03:50
with the pads that I am using (ferodo DS2500) you get approx 1.5mm overhang on the inner side that breaks away by its self - if you have the pads flush with the rotor top.

Gery83
15-05-10, 08:37
with the pads that I am using (ferodo DS2500) you get approx 1.5mm overhang on the inner side that breaks away by its self - if you have the pads flush with the rotor top.

Hmm... That is strange.
Why are the Ferodo pads smaller then the other ones?
I Like it this way better, because few months ago, one of my colleges almost died, because something was wrong with his brakes (probably last time at the service, they assembled something wrong...).
What happened is, the brake pad hanged too much in and reached the inner side of the disc.
1506

He didn't noticed it, just used the car.
So one day as the pad grinded this part of the disc, as he braked one bigger on a speedway, the outer side of the disc broke off.
You can imagine what happened... :(
His only luck was that he was driving not so fast. So he only hit the barrier of the speedway. But it could have come worse...

Gery83
20-08-10, 09:59
What is your opinion about this rim-caliper clearance?

1553

1554

1555

WhizzMan
20-08-10, 10:58
It looks fine to me :) Usually when you have fitment problems, either the spokes hit the caliper, or the balancing weights are knocked off. I solve that by using double sided tape and roofing lead.

jimnielsen
20-08-10, 11:06
Its tight, but it'd be ok for a race car! Most people dont use balance weights on race cars anyway..

Gery83
20-08-10, 15:22
Its tight, but it'd be ok for a race car! Most people dont use balance weights on race cars anyway..

It's a road car. :)
But the weights are not in the way, so that's not a problem.

AlfaJack
20-08-10, 17:55
It will be fine...you should see a standard Brera V6 setup - unbelievably close!

Ade
21-08-10, 16:47
Is there no way to fit Brembos without brackets on the Q4?
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo hubs not work like with the V6?

mindus
22-08-10, 19:51
Is there no way to fit Brembos without brackets on the Q4?
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo hubs not work like with the V6?

It will work. There is a thread somewhere on this forum.
However Fiat Coupe 4 pot brembo calipers a lot smaller as compared to AR 166 calipers. Smaller break pads, less braking area.

colibry
28-08-10, 19:51
i have drawings for brackets that dont need any mod and they fit perfectly. ill post pics when i find them.

colibry
28-08-10, 20:05
Ok. i found the pictures. here they are. This will fit perfectly on any 155/145 alfa with alfa 166 discs ( drilled 4x98 holes) and 4pot brembo calipers by brembo.

http://www.shrani.si/t/2R/FR/4gjE2uXt/166brembo-bracket.jpg (http://www.shrani.si/?2R/FR/4gjE2uXt/166brembo-bracket.jpg)

http://www.shrani.si/t/3N/PJ/RNSEWXZ/166brembo-bracket2.jpg (http://www.shrani.si/?3N/PJ/RNSEWXZ/166brembo-bracket2.jpg)

jimnielsen
28-08-10, 22:55
Thanks, for the pictures! They will be very useful one day I am sure!

jim.

wrinx
29-08-10, 20:18
Ok. i found the pictures. here they are. This will fit perfectly on any 155/145 alfa with alfa 166 discs ( drilled 4x98 holes) and 4pot brembo calipers by brembo.


Is this for use with the Coupe calipers?

wrinx

colibry
29-08-10, 20:27
dunno. i assume that yes becouse coupe 20v calipers are smaller than 166 ones. these brackets are used with 166 discs and 166 calipers.

wrinx
29-08-10, 23:40
...these brackets are used with 166 discs and 166 calipers.

Thanks for confirming :)

The brackets look good and appear to be a better fit than previous brackets.

wrinx

colibry
30-08-10, 21:53
i think these brackets are made with no mistakes. fits like original.:cheers:

peter holst
31-08-10, 05:28
just to be sure - can I use these brackets with my 166 calipers and my 304 coupe discs?

mindus
31-08-10, 20:16
just to be sure - can I use these brackets with my 166 calipers and my 304 coupe discs?

No.


...these brackets are used with 166 discs and 166 calipers...

colibry
01-09-10, 15:45
u can use it but i think ull have overhang,