Alfa 156 brembo brake upgrade.

[Redtractor]

Hi guys. I speak to you from Argentina! It's good to find a forum like that.
I've been looking for some information about updating the brakes for a long time. I have an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 136hp, and I want to put some Brembo brakes on it. I have the original wheels of the car, in 15. "I would like to put some Brembo calipers without having to change the brake disc, which is 284mm x 22. I have been seeing some calipers, and I have seen that most are for 300, 305 discs, 310 and 330m both alpha 166, fiat abarth 500 competition, alpha 159 and others.My concern, it is your I can keep the discs that I have, which are new, and place clips for 300mm or 305. I do not want to change the discs, because this It takes me to change the wheels and obviously the tires, and if I also need to change the master cylinder for this, which I think, if so, maybe I need to change the brake servo as well.
I hope you have understood my problem and can help me. Thank you!

[kunev]

Hi and welcome to the forum :).
In my opinion for such requirements is needed small radially mounted calipers and then custom made adapters for them and given discs. From above mentioned calipers from Fiat 500 Abarth (on Alfa Romeo Mito QV are the same) and 159 are radially mounted. I think, that with these from 500 Abarth/Mito QV can be achieved that goal. They are used originally with 305mm discs, on 159 are with 330mm. You can look at Porsche calipers also as most of them are radially mounted, from Boxster for example as they are relatively small. I have seen brembo calipers from Porsche on Alfa Romeo in 15", but don't know from what Porsche. I guess that they was from Boxster.
But in all cases you will need to be made custom adapter for these calipers and your discs.
I see that K-Sport offer front brake kit with 286mm discs, that is intended for 15" wheels.

[jNk]

Welcome Redtractor,

I am in the same path as you; using 15" wheels with the default 284x22 disks and I dont want to change them and fortunately found a caliper (http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/showthread.php?3405-Big-Brakes-166-Brembo-alternative-discs-and-calipers&p=28105#post28105) which seems to good for me and probably for you too. I am still waiting for the contact to reply to me regarding the calipers availability.

Another caliper option is Willwood (Dynalite) which is usable with our 22mm disk and 15" wheels.

Last but not least you should consider a to upgrade only your disks and brake pads to some higher quality ones (Brembo Max, Mintex / Ferrodo) because they can do a good job for non-tuned road car.

[Steve Webb]

Hi Redtractor

Its an interesting problem as most people go the other way, they want to fit larger wheels then maybe fit some larger brakes. I guess the larger brakes from the 147/156 GTA's are out of the question because of the wheel size, which does really only leave aftermarket producers of caliper, fitting them using brackets.
I know there are mixed reviews of them, but have you had a look at the D2 range of products? They might have something suitable.

Oh and welcome to the forum, feel free to add your car into the Garage, its always good to see what everyone drives.

Cheers

Steve

[kunev]

I have forgot about disc thickness. Generally bigger calipers are used with bigger and thicker discs. And for example these from 500 Abarth/Mito QV are used with 305x28mm discs. So best way for such small and thin disc is with some small aftermarket calipers designed for such discs. Willwood was already mentioned and they have big range from what I see.

[Redtractor]

Thank you all for the welcome. : D
*I was watching the post a bit and it looks interesting. Also, I would like to put Brembo, Italian car, Italian brakes, hahaha. Brembo is a whim that I have, beyond which there are surely other very good ones too.

I was seeing that the Brembo of the Alfa GT, can get to be placed in a good way, since the Alfa GT carries 286mm discs. What I do not know, is the issue of support, although I suppose I'll have to do it if it's not plug and play.
*If a pair of Alpha GTV for example, or any other that carries 305mm discs, could take place, it would be a lottery since they are somewhat larger grippers. Does anyone know if it can work?

*There is an Abarth (2012) that brings brembo and discs of 286x28, I think that was the measure, but I have not seen a sale of those tweezers. That to get them, you can save the distance 22-28mm with a thicker pill, or just the common pill, just that the piston would be something more out. Or, in this case, given that the Alfa has 5 holes and the Abarth 4, make a disc for the measurement of the Alfa in one of these places that makes racing brakes and are not so expensive.

*http://www.frenosdoppler.com/shop/discos-productos/discos-ventilados-planos-2/
or
http://www.frenosft.com.ar/catalogo_frenosft.asp?ID_PROD=5

*I found this post http://hexenberg.free.fr/75/disque_m3_etrier_brembo.htm

Here it says that in 15 "wheels you can place 305 discs, with a spacer, which is the least, while between the clamp ... Will it really take place?
I would like to know where I can get the measurements of the GT clamps or any that carry 305 discs.

[Steve Webb]

One thing that most people don't take into account is master cylinder size, if you fit new calipers with a different total piston area then you are going to need to change the master cylinder to keep the pedal travel/feel the same and also keep the same front to rear bias.

If you go for a caliper that has a larger total piston area, then you are going to need to move more fluid into the caliper to move the pads the same distance, so unless you increase the master cylinder area you are going to have longer pedal travel.

[Redtractor]

[QUOTE = Steve Webb; 28165] Una cosa que la mayoría de las personas no tiene en cuenta es el tamaño del cilindro maestro, si se ajustan nuevas pinzas con un área de pistón totalmente diferente, entonces ¿qué pasará con el cilindro maestro para mantener el pedal viajar? ? y también mantener la misma sesión de atrás hacia atrás.

Si buscas un calibrador que tenga un área de pistón total más grande, entonces podrás moverlo a la misma distancia, de la misma manera que el tamaño del cilindro maestro, tendrá un pedal más largo viajar. [/ QUOTE]

Sí, lo he tenido en cuenta. El 156 trae 22.5mm de diámetro y tengo un 25mm o similar. Que es el alfa 159. Lo único que no es el cilindro maestro que se ajusta bien, que es más grande, que cambia las distancias entre los agujeros en la servidumbre o el servo que cambia todo.

En otra parte me hizo una copia que no era necesario, pero creo que para mantener corto el pedar, es necesario.

[Steve Webb]

I think that translates to

"Yes, I have taken it into account. The 156 comes 22.5mm in diameter and I have a 25mm or similar. Which is the alpha 159. The only thing that is not the master cylinder that fits well, that is bigger, that changes the distances between the holes in the servitude or the servo that changes everything.

Elsewhere he made me a copy that was not necessary, but I think that in order to keep the pedal short, it is necessary."

Anyone care to correct googles translation?

[Redtractor]

Yes I've thinked about it. The 156 has a 22.5 mm diameter master cylinder and I have seen one with a diameter of 25 mm (alpha 159). What I do not know is if the master cylinder of 159, as it is bigger, maybe the distances between the holes in the servo change, or if I have to change everything completely.

In another forum, I was told that it is not necessary to change the cylinder, but I think that to keep the pedal short, it is necessary.

Now, is it better understood?

[wrinx]

Whilst the theory behind needing a larger master cylinder is correct, the actual difference it makes may be so small that it's not worth doing. I had 166 Brembos on my 155 Q4 and never noticed the difference...apart from amazing brakes of course!

wrinx

[Steve Webb]

I had 166 Brembos on my 155 Q4 and never noticed the difference...apart from amazing brakes of course!

wrinx

Speaking about your Q4 in the past tense. Something I've missed?

Always best to go with real-world experience rather than theory.

As you were chaps.

[wrinx]

Past tense is for the brakes only :lol: It's now fitted with Wilwoods so I can squeeze Oz Zagatos under the arches.

Still got the car although the back end is devoid of wheel,suspension, fuel tank subframe etc because I'm welding up the rear. Well, the reality is I haven't touched it for a couple of years at least!

wrinx

[Redtractor]

[QUOTE = wrinx; 28171] Si bien la teoría detrás de la necesidad de un cilindro maestro más grande es correcta, la diferencia real que hace puede ser tan pequeña que no vale la pena hacerlo. Tenía 166 Brembos en mi 155 Q4 y nunca noté la diferencia ... ¡aparte de frenos increíbles, por supuesto!

wrinx [/ QUOTE]

It´s a great news!!!, y en un 155!!!!! Ufffff!! :hiper::hiper::aplaudir::aplaudir:

Thanks!!

[Steve Webb]

So Which Wilwoods did you go for? And are they any good, if infact youve driven the car with them on??




Past tense is for the brakes only :lol: It's now fitted with Wilwoods so I can squeeze Oz Zagatos under the arches.

Still got the car although the back end is devoid of wheel,suspension, fuel tank subframe etc because I'm welding up the rear. Well, the reality is I haven't touched it for a couple of years at least!

wrinx

[wrinx]

I bought a set second hand from Speedy and refurbished them...took a bit of doing but they look good now. Sadly, I've not driven the car with them on but Speedy said they were good.

http://alfa155.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=38773&start=165

I think they're Dynalites, but the older version without dust covers.

wrinx

[Steve Webb]

Wow, much smaller than the 166 Brembos, but then again they are kinda overkill for most.

[Redtractor]

Hi guys. I revise this post, since I have found something very interesting and that I will surely carry out. They are 305 discs with Alfa 166 clamps inside 15 "rims." The only thing I do not know, is that 305x28 disc with a 50mm center and 5x98 will go to Alfa 156. If not, I should modify one.

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=148562

[Redtractor]

Another post...

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/other-mechanical-electrical/690441-biggest-brake-kit-squeeze-into-15-rims.html

[jNk]

Nice finds there Redtractor :thumbsup:

My brakes are still stock and still have no answer from the guy who sells the 4pots so these links can come handy!

[Redtractor]

Hello again guys. I have a question ... It will be possible to change the master cylinder of my 156, by one of 166 ?. Do the screw holes match? Does anyone know? I would like to make the braking system very safe. Thank you. This forum is wonderful.