Rear springs issue and options

[kunev]

I bought H&R monotube coilovers kit for 155 2.5 V6 (29992-2) to use it on my widebody Q4, but when installing by service shop was seen that rear of the car sit on the tyres! The rear springs are too short for my car and can not be driven at all. For the kit is advertised lowering at the back around 40mm for 155 2.5 V6. Will mention also, that the car is with bigger wheels and tyres than original and also use spacers (OZ Ultraleggera 17" 7J ET37, 215/40-17, 12mm spacers) which have impact for sure to how much lower the rear can be, but rear tyres are "inside of rear fenders edge". Coilovers at the front fit fine and for rear was used new shocks from the kit (which I think are lower than original, so probably something like Bilstein B8 made for H&R) and old Eibach springs, which are -35mm I think. And with rear springs from that kit was explained to me that the car was several cm lower than these old Eibach springs.
Yes, Q4 is heavier than 155 V6 at the back and diameter of my tyres is bigger than original and they further out, but still is very strange to me how these springs can be so much lower and unusable! I measure these H&R springs around 270mm from tip to tip and according to manual original rear springs on all 155 versions have free length of 305mm. And they have more windings than original and have to be stiffer than original one even that they are for V6 in my opinion.
Does someone can post measured sizes of rear springs for Q4 - original or aftermarket?
What about options for rear springs, which are stiff and don't lower so much? I have read somewhere for using of rear springs from Fiat Marea Weekend on 155. Also read that Tony from this forum was used ALF1173 HA springs in his Intrax RS coilovers and was pleased with result (->link (http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/showthread.php?2557-Anyone-tested-this-coilover-s&p=24615#post24615)). And this is part number for Intrax springs for 155 Q4, but I see that they are listed for lowering of around 50mm, which is a lot in my opinion. Does someone have used them.

[Steve Webb]

Your tyres really are quite a bit larger than the standard ones fitted to the Q4, the diameter is about 18mm bigger. When you say the car sits on the tyres do you mean the rear wheel arch sits on top of the top of the tyre, or the tyre rubs the inside of the arch?

I've always been against lowering the Q4 too much, and 40-50mm is a long way down in my opinion.

[AlfaJack]

I have the same tyres, I think the wheel ET is 35 with Eibach -35mm springs. Have you got any photos of this problem?
I can't imagine how it can sit so low - you would need a couple of hundred kilos of cement in the boot!

[kunev]

I have read somewhere that 205/45-16 was also used as original on widebody cars and if this is true from that size the increase in diameter is 13mm. Don't know width and offset of original wheels, but for sure the tyres will be closer to inside of the car. Here is one site with standard tyre sizes, which I found -> link (http://carstiresize.com/alfa-romeo-155-tire-size-dimensions-for-all-wheels-front-and-rear-axles/).
Unfortunately I didn't see it in real and also no photo was made by mechanics with rear springs from the kit. But the picture was explained to me with associations for old Citroen set to low, Citroen with blown suspension spheres ... The tire at the top was not seen and when the car was put down it's not settle to some height and go all the way down.
Will make some photos how is now with old Eibach springs at the back.

[wrinx]

205/45/16 were the standard size for Sportpack equipped cars.

The "standard" wheel size is actually 195/55/15 if I remember correctly, the ones fitted to "Super" versions.

wrinx

[kunev]

Here is some pictures of how is rear tyre and fender now.
27732774277527762777
Why they have not designed bigger wheel arches :sad:

[Brul(tm)]

I have a small body, 17" with 215/40 tyres and 50mm lowering.
Yes, it brings challenges....

The rear end is limited in the damping allowed, adjusted the bump stops and the damping of the shock absorber.
Front end is solved by adjusting the koni shock absorber to the max stifness .
Looks like this:
https://s30.postimg.org/uic0gpizl/IMG_5545.jpg
https://s1.postimg.org/i8qru82y7/IMG_3254.jpg

Wheel offset is ET35 and I don't use a spacer.
You need to be willing to leave a comfortable ride experience....

[Steve Webb]

kunev , Have you checked what the tyres are rubbing on in the wheel well? Mine rub a little under compression, but its just the corner of a seam so I'm not all that worried about it.
Your car certainly doesn't look too low.

[Steve Webb]

@Brul ,
Nice to see you back once again. Its been far too long. See you are still rocking the Gold wheels.

[kunev]

Yes with my old Eibach springs the car is not so low at the back. With old rear dampers and current wheels/tyres/spacers setup I heard touching at the back on some bigger unevenness on the road (for example on steady driving on highway without person at the back!), but now with new dampers I haven't heard such.
But the strange thing to me is regarding H&R rear springs from the that kit. They advertise lowering by -40mm on 2.5 V6. Yes Q4 is heavier at the back than V6, but with these springs was something like let say -40mm from current lowering from what was explained to me (haven't see it)! And as one friend have given good example - this kit on 2.5 V6 for which it is intended for (with TUV) and 2 people at the back and luggage in the boot and the car can not be driven (or can be if the tyres are very inside the fender ...).
Look like H&R springs lower more than they used to or more than other brands and are stiffer than others. A friend of mine is used many springs in his Fiat Coupe and H&R one was lowest of them all without a doubt and the specified lowering of them is -35mm. And here is some comparison pictures of these rear springs for Fiat Coupe and mine from the kit for 2.5 V6
27792778
And from what I have read Coupe rear springs are shorter (free length) than 155 around 35-40 mm.
So generally I'm looking for option, which lower let say similar to now, but is stiffer, than Eibach springs.

[kunev]

Brul(tm) , How width are your wheels? I have read in some old threads, that you have used Intrax springs and you are happy with them. Do you still use them (their springs for Q4 are stated as 50mm lowering and you sad, that the car is lowered with 50mm)?

Some times ago, before I buy this H&R kit for 155 2.5 V6, I asked H&R for spring rates of it and they answer:
"29992-2 uses springs with 55N/mm front and 45N/mm rear."
I thought for making of some custom adjuster (like on rear coilovers, where damper is outside spring) for rear springs and to use rear springs from H&R kit, but specified by them springs rates don't look very stiff, so probably they will not provide desired stiffness.
So my last thoughts are to try Intrax springs for Q4 (part number ALF1173). I have asked them some times ago about spring rates, they reply that don't know this, just sad they their springs are designed to be maximum 10% stiffer than original one. From them can be ordered only front/rear springs and the price will be kit price devided by 2 and adding of 10€ excl. VAT.
If Brul(tm) confirm, that he use them on the pictures will be good news for me as the car look spot on :thumb::smile:

[Brul(tm)]

Brul(tm) , How width are your wheels? I have read in some old threads, that you have used Intrax springs and you are happy with them. Do you still use them (their springs for Q4 are stated as 50mm lowering and you sad, that the car is lowered with 50mm)?

Sorry for the late reply. I believe the width is 7J, ET37 and no spacer. Tyre size is 215/40. And yes, I used Intrax springs that lower the car 50mm. I did have a problem with the tyres rubbing the wheel arches. I solved this by restricting how far the rear end is allowed to travel down. I think the rear end is just to heavy, causing al kind of challenges. I still have the same setup as stated, unfortunately the car is stacked away in a shed for a decade now and I am not sure if it will be brought back to life :thinking-011::lipsrsealed: