View Full Version : Q4 in UK
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-155-Q4-TURBO-4WD-INTEGRALE-POWERED-ENGINE-LIKE-NEW-WARRANTED-1800kms-/150919905667?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2323870183#ht_1351wt_1186
Bit of an unknown quantity but what Q4 isn't...:ninja:
Steve Webb
09-10-12, 00:19
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-155-Q4-TURBO-4WD-INTEGRALE-POWERED-ENGINE-LIKE-NEW-WARRANTED-1800kms-/150919905667?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2323870183#ht_1351wt_1186
Bit of an unknown quantity but what Q4 isn't...:ninja:
Ermm, should I contact the seller and give him a little more history.
As soon as I spotted the reg number I thought it looked familiar. That is the red Q4 I owned before moving out to France.
Yes it has had a new engine fitted, but it was before the continental road trip, and on the road trip the car was binned across a verge into a ditch.
The guy that bought it from me was going to stick a Fiat 20vt motor into it, longitudinally, bmw gearbox and the Q4 rear diff.
In fact I think the guy selling it, is the guy that bought it from me, so hes being a little naughty not disclosing the full history.
Ermm, should I contact the seller and give him a little more history.
As soon as I spotted the reg number I thought it looked familiar. That is the red Q4 I owned before moving out to France.
Yes it has had a new engine fitted, but it was before the continental road trip, and on the road trip the car was binned across a verge into a ditch.
The guy that bought it from me was going to stick a Fiat 20vt motor into it, longitudinally, bmw gearbox and the Q4 rear diff.
In fact I think the guy selling it, is the guy that bought it from me, so hes being a little naughty not disclosing the full history.
I thought it might be but it didn't all add up except for the crated engine.
Steve Webb
09-10-12, 08:14
Yep, the good things about the car are that its got an almost new engine, like he says if he hasn't used it since he bought it its got less than 2000 miles on it. Its also got an evocars chip in it.
New clutch went in with the engine, however the release bearing wasn't changed, and is noisy.
As I recall it also had the waterspray system in the boot, looked unused as well.
It also had a replacement front subframe which was rust treated before being bolted up.
Bad parts? Lots and lots, to be honest putting it back on the road would be costly. I think it would be destined to be a trackday car, or more likely a donor for a coupe 4x4 conversion.
If anyone is going to look at it, drop me a mail and I'll give you some of the major bad points!
Steve Webb
10-10-12, 21:37
Right due to a number of people asking about this car, and due to the fact I used to own it I think it best I disclose what I know about the car.
As far as I can remember, and this all started about 9 years ago for me, the car was owned by Richard Banks of Alfaholics, he picked it up cheap as it needed a new engine. He bought a box-fresh engine from Fiat SPA and Alfaholics fitted it. As the engine was designated for an integrale some of the original Q4 ancillaries were swapped over to the new engine.
The car was then used by him and his son Max I believe as a support car for when they were out racing. It was on a trip to Spa for a race when things went wrong. With Max driving they apparently hit a patch of diesel on a corner, slid off the road and eventually ended up in a ditch on its side.
They unloaded the race car from the trailer, loaded the Q4 up and Max then had to drive the racecar back to the UK with the Q4 on the trailer being dragged behind the tow car.
At this point Richard got in touch with me as he didn't want to throw any more money at the car.
The car turned up at my place in Wiltshire on the back of a trailer with the following list of 'issues'
3 of the 4 wheels were knackered, either massively buckled or parts knocked off them.
Both front wishbones were scrap, one was bent, one shattered.
Front subframe was badly bent
Gearbox mount was smashed
Cosmetic bodywork damage to both front wings, and doors on one side, there was also a worrying crease in the roof around sunroof. Now I couldn't work out if this was just from where it was pushed upright out of the ditch or from when the accident happened.
I replaced the front subframe with one from another scrapped Q4, got new wishbones and slung on some wheels I had lying around. Fixed up all the other little bits of accident damage (mechanical) and did drive the car to check things out.
At this point I swapped out the chip for an Evocars one, Barry kindly donated it to me as the original Q4 chip was written on my car on a rolling road.
I slung a new oil cooler and hoses onto the car as the original one was wrecked in the crash, and a new pair of Brembo front disks as I seem to remember one had been damaged in the crash as well.
In the advert where he says the interior is stripped, unless he has been replacing parts, the interior is very stripped, it was going to become a trackday car so pretty much everything that wasn't necessary to drive the car has gone. No heater, no lower dash, air-con removed, ABS ECU removed etc.
I'm not sure that the guy selling the Q4 is the same guy that bought it from me, but looking back through his feedback he did buy something from me around the date I sold the car. (May 2004) So the chances are that this car has been sat around for over 8 years.
I'll dig out some pics of when the car was with me.
Steve Webb
10-10-12, 22:01
Here are a few pics, damaged wheel #1, replaced gearbox endcap, damaged wing, cracked disk, stripped interior.
Oh and almost forgot, it had Konis, with unknown springs (red coloured, Eibach?)
Steve Webb
10-10-12, 22:03
Next: Stripped interior, damaged oil cooler, bodywork damage, broken wishbone, damaged wing.
Steve Webb
10-10-12, 22:06
And finally: Broken wheels #2 and #3, damaged gearbox endcap and what it covers.
Feel free to publicize this thread elsewhere so people are fully aware of the car.
Steve Webb
10-10-12, 22:12
Oh and just in-case you are in any doubt, here is a pic of the car along with my black Q4 back when it was in the UK.
alfa155chris
10-10-12, 23:12
mmmmmmmm nice pics steve
Steve Webb
11-10-12, 08:47
As you can see from the pics the car took a hell of a bang through the front wheels, just thought it best people saw how bad it was.
I bought this example several years ago from a chap emigrating to South Africa
Did you take a wrong turn on your way out there Steve? :lol-030:
Steve Webb
11-10-12, 12:58
Quite where South Africa came from I have no idea.
The rest is like Eric and Ernie, all the right details, not necessarily in the right places.
Alfa Patch
12-10-12, 16:58
I saw this when it was listed, it at best looks unloved. The fact that the bonnet is mullered and theres no mention of any damage to it should set off alarm bells.
Be great for parts if i had the time / space / need.
Did you ever use the car Steve?
Steve Webb
12-10-12, 18:23
Like I said this car is probably best as a donor car for a Coupe\145\Tipo conversion. Everything you'll need is there, and buying it as a whole car would probably work out cheaper in the long run.
The engine in the car is great, and is only just run-in. It has 1800 miles on it, not 1800 km. Its got an Evocars chip so a few more horses than standard, and with a lot of weight gone it felt a lot more lively than a standard Q4. I didn't drive it that much, but did take it out for a few runs on trade plates.
If it were closer to me I'd put in a cheeky offer for the parts.
Well, it's got some bidders now and hopefully it'll be sorted rather than parted out...for me, it'd all depend on how much damage was sustained during it's "off".
wrinx
This is just down the road from me I am so tempted to nip down and have a mooch. But at the current bid price I am not sure it stacks up for the parts as that is all I would want it for.
Steve Webb
13-10-12, 16:54
I love the addition at the bottom of the advert, 'getting pangs of remorse' , strange to have such pangs for a car that appears to have been sat in his yard for 8.5years.
Oh and if whoever buys the car is reading this, I've got some of the bits you'll need to put it back on the road. Just check out the shop. :)
Steve Webb
13-10-12, 16:57
Well, it's got some bidders now and hopefully it'll be sorted rather than parted out...for me, it'd all depend on how much damage was sustained during it's "off".
wrinx
You have taken a look at some of the pics I stuck up in an earlier post haven't you?
Whether or not you can bend the sub-frame without bending the shell I'm not sure, thats part of the reason why I've posted all these details.
Yes...I was referring to the roof crease, makes me wonder if there's more in store than the pictures can show.
wrinx
Did anyone on here buy it?
Hi there,
In answer to your question, for better or for worse, I am the buyer of the car, and it was in much worse condition than what the seller stated it was. He wasn't really straight or honest as to the true condition, or the true story of the car.
It's not too much of a problem as I'm planning to build it into a race car anyway. I have built several cars before, a nice Facsimile trials car, and a Porsche 924 for the one make race series, so I've got a pretty good idea of the work that's involved, but I do wish the seller had been more honest in his eBay listing.
I am a new forum user, and not very good with it yet, so please bear with me, but is it possible to send the pictures to my personal email address? I may as well print them off, and put it in a folder with all the history of the car, I suppose even dubious history is worth having!....
If so my email address is colin@superformance.co.uk
My main reason for registering was to seek help with information to start preparing the car, I plan to strip and acid dip the shell, before starting work on it, obviously from what I've just read I'm going to have to jig it as well to check it's straight.
From reading the AROC race regulations on the BRSCC site, being turbo charged it looks like I've got to enter it in class A, in which it appears pretty much anything goes as it seems to be the open class for those who want to build a special car. With that in mind can anyone point me in the direct of obtaining a race replica body kit for the car? I'm sure to buy a body kit off the shelf would be the easiest option, or even to who originally built the cars back in the day, they may still have the moulds for the race bodywork. I still haven't decided to go for the more adventurous DTM look, or the more straightforward BTCC look, but in reality it will end up being decided by what's available as that will have such an implication on the cost of preparing the shell.
If moulds are available I've got a very good fiberglass guy, so I can reproduce the quite easily, he's not necessarily the cheapest, but he is very good.
So that's my first question, for stage one, if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.
Also does anyone know if new body panels are available anywhere?
All the best, from a man who knows he just taken on a ton of work and expense!......
Colin
Welcome Colin,
Great that you have joined up here - it really is the home of the Q4.
There will be lots of advice coming your way I am sure.
For now, wishing you luck and keep us posted on development - we like progress pictures!
Jack
Oh, and I just saw the Car you drive in the profile. Masser QP!.....amazing how you can dislike someone so quickly ;)
Alfa Patch
30-10-12, 19:29
Hi there,
From reading the AROC race regulations on the BRSCC site, being turbo charged it looks like I've got to enter it in class A, in which it appears pretty much anything goes as it seems to be the open class for those who want to build a special car. Colin
Hi
Racing seems the way to go with the car. The AROC regs seem unfavourable (being polite) to a Q4 in that they force you into the 'monster' class just because it has a turbo. No equivalence factor allowing you to run a less modified car with thye V6's seems very harsh.
It would be worth contact them to see if regs for 2013 have been drawn up as subtle changes could affect the direction you take. I'd love to race mine but as you say the costs involved with getting it to that spec would be mega. I expect class A includes old WTCC cars and the like, they'll take some beating.
Not a helpful reply from me I know, anyhow welcome and it'll be great to see the cars development.
Steve Webb
30-10-12, 19:33
Oh, and I just saw the Car you drive in the profile. Masser QP!.....amazing how you can dislike someone so quickly ;)
Have you checked the domain of his email account? Bastard :nahnahna:
Seriously Colin, welcome to the place, be sure to check out all the manuals on the website, and feel free to ask anything about the car. It was me that bought it from the guy that crashed it. Spent many an hour underneath it. Be nice to see it up and running again.
Hi guys,
Just got home from work and logged back in to the forum, so thank you all for the quick replies, but maybe I should have put the company van, Fiat Scudo, as my car, rather than the QP, I don't want people going off me too quickly!.........
All the best,
Colin
Oooh, another race car in development :cool:
There are two people you might want to speak with...Roger Evans at Peal Alfa; he's raced 155s in the ARCA championship (it is this one you're mean, not AROC I think?) and is currently successfully campaigning a monster GTV; secondly Jim Neilson who is/was a member here. He raced a home tuned Q4 in Australia and did a lot of development work that might give you some ideas or pointer about what to do or avoid.
Sadly, I don't think you'll get any race panels off the shelf, but the factory race cars were run by Alfa Corse in 1994 (skinny) and Prodrive in 1995 (widebody).
Keep us informed on progress please :)
wrinx
Hi
Racing seems the way to go with the car. The AROC regs seem unfavourable (being polite) to a Q4 in that they force you into the 'monster' class just because it has a turbo. No equivalence factor allowing you to run a less modified car with thye V6's seems very harsh.
It would be worth contact them to see if regs for 2013 have been drawn up as subtle changes could affect the direction you take. I'd love to race mine but as you say the costs involved with getting it to that spec would be mega. I expect class A includes old WTCC cars and the like, they'll take some beating.
Not a helpful reply from me I know, anyhow welcome and it'll be great to see the cars development.
With regards to the class structure it woud appear that they don't allow ex DTM, WTCC, etc, in the class, so each car has to be personally built.
I certainly don't have unlimted money to spend on the car, so budget is a very real consideration, but on the other hand I am prepared to spend quite a chunk on money on developing it and getting it right.
Oooh, another race car in development :cool:
There are two people you might want to speak with...Roger Evans at Peal Alfa; he's raced 155s in the ARCA championship (it is this one you're mean, not AROC I think?) and is currently successfully campaigning a monster GTV; secondly Jim Neilson who is/was a member here. He raced a home tuned Q4 in Australia and did a lot of development work that might give you some ideas or pointer about what to do or avoid.
Sadly, I don't think you'll get any race panels off the shelf, but the factory race cars were run by Alfa Corse in 1994 (skinny) and Prodrive in 1995 (widebody).
Keep us informed on progress please :)
wrinx
Thank you for the info that's very useful, would you happen to have the contact details for Roger or Jim?
I did wonder why this went so cheap..... and I bet its probably because anyone seriously into buying a Q4 would keep an eye on the forums for all the info like this thread brought up!
I did buy the car, but only registered on the site and found out all this info after buying it!..... Opppps...........
Thank you for the info that's very useful, would you happen to have the contact details for Roger or Jim?
Roger: http://www.peakalfa.co.uk/
Jim: http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=278 This might not be the right link, but it should allow you to private message him.
wrinx
Steve Webb
31-10-12, 08:41
I did buy the car, but only registered on the site and found out all this info after buying it!..... Opppps...........
Well, with regards to the shell, I would focus your attention around the passenger side subframe mounting point. Not where it bolts to the shell around the footwell, but the mounting point forward of that. The subframe is a good one, it came from a Q4 that went sideways into a telegraph pole (not that hard)
But some good news for you, when the car arrived with me, the engine only had 1800 miles under its belt. I didn't put many miles on it, and from the look of it the guy you bought it from didn't either. So, despite the fact there was never any warranty with regards to the mileage of the engine, I'm confident the engine has less than 2k miles on it.
Oh and its not a rebuilt motor, it was a crate engine from Fiat Spa. originally destined for an integrale.
Roger: http://www.peakalfa.co.uk/
Jim: http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=278 This might not be the right link, but it should allow you to private message him.
wrinx
Thank you, I've just saved peakalfa in my favourites, and emailed Jim to see if he can help.
Best regards,
Colin
Well, with regards to the shell, I would focus your attention around the passenger side subframe mounting point. Not where it bolts to the shell around the footwell, but the mounting point forward of that. The subframe is a good one, it came from a Q4 that went sideways into a telegraph pole (not that hard)
But some good news for you, when the car arrived with me, the engine only had 1800 miles under its belt. I didn't put many miles on it, and from the look of it the guy you bought it from didn't either. So, despite the fact there was never any warranty with regards to the mileage of the engine, I'm confident the engine has less than 2k miles on it.
Oh and its not a rebuilt motor, it was a crate engine from Fiat Spa. originally destined for an integrale.
Thanks Steve,
From what everyone is saying I've obvioulsy got to pay careful attention to the shell. And good news that the engine will be nice and new inside, but I had planned to look into what upgrades are available, as I don't think it would be competitive in class A in a fairly standard form, especially as I've just learnt from one of the links on here that Peak Alfa are running a supercharged 3.2 GTV in class A!...
All the best,
Colin
Steve Webb
02-11-12, 08:09
What are the restrictions going to be on the class you are aiming for?
I've always thought that a 155 running the back axle form the Q4 mated up to a Fiat 20vt motor up front would make for an interesting car.
Whether it would all fit is another matter.
hi, dont we have another member who has a race car running in europe as well? is he still about? this one : http://www.berlinasportivo.com/marquespec/Alfa/Q4register/_zillinger.php
i can also remember speaking some time ago to Rusper alfa about my Q4 and being told they built one with full integrale suspension here on this page even mentions they raced a Q4 :) http://www.rusperalfaromeo.com/aboutus.htm best of luck with it
Steve Webb
02-11-12, 19:32
hi, dont we have another member who has a race car running in europe as well? is he still about? this one : http://www.berlinasportivo.com/marquespec/Alfa/Q4register/_zillinger.php
Wolfgang is still about, but he's traded the 155 in for a 75 V6. The 155 was a Euro-spec touring car, an ER2. From the pics and details, there is an awful lot of trick parts in the car. Not sure how eligible it would be for the Aroc races.
Be interested to hear more about Rusper's Q4 with integrale suspension. Fitting the integrale setup at the rear would be an awful lot of work.
Colin you could also speak to Neil Smith, current Alfa race hampion who races the ex-Tarquini 156 - he used to be an Integrale dealer so knows these cars pretty well. Was also the ARCA race preparer of the year 2011 - he looks after my Q4 and is based near Worcester where I am based - tell 01386 555523 - nice chap.
I have also hear very good things about Roger Evans but never dealt with him.
peter holst
03-11-12, 10:01
With that in mind can anyone point me in the direct of obtaining a race replica body kit for the car? I'm sure to buy a body kit off the shelf would be the easiest option, or even to who originally built the cars back in the day, they may still have the moulds for the race bodywork. I still haven't decided to go for the more adventurous DTM look, or the more straightforward BTCC look, but in reality it will end up being decided by what's available as that will have such an implication on the cost of preparing the shell.
I have looked all over and never found any moulds for the alfa155 and not many parts.
I have Got a pair of Carbon skirts for an 94/95 dtm car and a part of the front spoiler from an stw car.
Colin you could also speak to Neil Smith, current Alfa race hampion who races the ex-Tarquini 156 - he used to be an Integrale dealer so knows these cars pretty well. Was also the ARCA race preparer of the year 2011 - he looks after my Q4 and is based near Worcester where I am based - tell 01386 555523 - nice chap.
I have also hear very good things about Roger Evans but never dealt with him.
Thank you for the info, I'll have a word with him.
With that in mind can anyone point me in the direct of obtaining a race replica body kit for the car? I'm sure to buy a body kit off the shelf would be the easiest option, or even to who originally built the cars back in the day, they may still have the moulds for the race bodywork. I still haven't decided to go for the more adventurous DTM look, or the more straightforward BTCC look, but in reality it will end up being decided by what's available as that will have such an implication on the cost of preparing the shell.
I have looked all over and never found any moulds for the alfa155 and not many parts.
I have Got a pair of Carbon skirts for an 94/95 dtm car and a part of the front spoiler from an stw car.
I've been searching the internet like a mad thing for the past week or so and I can't seem to find any body kits either.
Unless I go for some kind of bespoke build, which would be outrageously expensive, I think what I'm going to have to is go for more of a BTCC group N standard look. Unless someone on here far more knowledgeable than me comes up with some new information it looks like that's the way I'm going to have to go. I did want to do something a little more adventurous but if it's not to be, then so be it.
I do use a body panel fabricator in my normal business so maybe the way forward would be to work out what wheel and trye package I'm going to use, and then ask him to flare the arches to clear the tyres, and possibly leave the body modifications at that.
Steve Webb
04-11-12, 22:58
Have you taken a look at this thread : http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/showthread.php?t=2171&page=2 from post #37 onwards.
Its being created from scratch by one of our Greek members but hopefully when its all finished we will be offering the kit made from the original moulds through the shop.
Is that the sort of thing you are after?
Hi Steve,
I've just posted on that thread to see if they are available. It's a little bit difficult to say if it's suitable for what I'm trying to do as I can't see how wide the wheel arches are, and whether or not it would offer it any major advantage over just fitting a pair of wide front wings.
I think the thing to do is take a look at the kit once it becomes available.
All the best,
Colin
Steve Webb
05-11-12, 23:01
The kit is still being worked on at the moment, still got the front and rear bumpers to fabricate.
Keep an eye on the thread, its kept pretty much up to date.
Hi Steve,
Will do, this is my first foray into forums, so I'm still earning how to use them. But I'm getting the hang of it as it looks like I'll be spending a lot of time on here!...
All the best,
Colin
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