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Steve Webb
09-09-12, 15:54
Just wandering if it was possible to swap out the water pump without removing the timing\balancer belts?

Just started the car up (treated it to a new battery) and something under the bonnet has some very very grumbly bearings. I've got a new pump so was wandering if anyone had swapped it.

I've got the feeling the belts need to come off though.
AlfaJack
09-09-12, 17:36
Just wandering if it was possible to swap out the water pump without removing the timingbalancer belts?

Just started the car up (treated it to a new battery) and something under the bonnet has some very very grumbly bearings. I've got a new pump so was wandering if anyone had swapped it.

I've got the feeling the belts need to come off though.

Pretty sure it can be done with the cambelt in place. Balance belt would probably need to come off though.
Steve Webb
09-09-12, 17:42
Whats the general consensus on running without the balance belt these days?

Don't use the car enough to be worried about the extra vibration, but can the belt just come off or do the shafts need to be pegged/full on removal kit?
AlfaJack
09-09-12, 17:50
I have run mine like this for about 1500 miles now and have just got used to the extra vibration. Less worry, less cost.
I did lock the front one though as it would spin with the cambelt turning the whole bearing.
alfa155chris
09-09-12, 19:14
I think you can replace water pump without moving the belts.

I've been running the 156 sportwagon without balance belt and don't really notice anything from it missing.
So will be removing the balance belt on the 16vt engine but will be removing them or locking them
Steve Webb
10-09-12, 10:56
I did lock the front one though as it would spin with the cambelt turning the whole bearing.

I remember you posting up what you used to lock the front shaft, but I can't for the life of me find it now. Do you remember where you put it.

Looking down at the balance belt pulley on the crank and there seems to be quite a bit of surface rust between the teeth, so it looks like the water pump has been leaking onto it.
Lends weight to my theory that the water pump is making all the noise.
AlfaJack
10-09-12, 12:28
Here is the thread:
http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/showthread.php?t=2263&highlight=balance
AlfaJack
10-09-12, 12:28
Here is the thread:
http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/showthread.php?t=2263&highlight=balance
Alfa Patch
10-09-12, 13:39
Whats the advantage of removing the belts? The balancing shafts must have been there for a reason. As Jack says in the other thread its not the most refined driving engine in the world to begin with, i wouldn't want it feeling any 'rougher' unless i was gaining some good hp or reliability.
Steve Webb
10-09-12, 13:46
Cheers, do they just provide a little friction against the balance shaft or is there a flat part of the shaft?
Evodelta
10-09-12, 13:53
Just wandering if it was possible to swap out the water pump without removing the timingbalancer belts?



In one word: No!
AlfaJack
10-09-12, 14:01
Cheers, do they just provide a little friction against the balance shaft or is there a flat part of the shaft?

Yes, I think it just secures them with a little friction.
When tightening the bolt for the pulley make sure the pulley doesn't turn or it will chew up the plate and you have to start again.
AlfaJack
10-09-12, 14:07
Whats the advantage of removing the belts? The balancing shafts must have been there for a reason.

You will find the car free wheels better as there is less to turn on the engine. It seems to pickup a little nicer too.
Steve Webb
10-09-12, 14:08
Whats the advantage of removing the belts? The balancing shafts must have been there for a reason. As Jack says in the other thread its not the most refined driving engine in the world to begin with, i wouldn't want it feeling any 'rougher' unless i was gaining some good hp or reliability.

The shafts are there to smooth out some of the vibrations, however in a reasonably balanced motor there shouldn't be much to smooth out.

The benefits of removing the belt\shafts is that there is less rotating mass in the engine so less power lost and a little bit more going to the transmission.

However one of the major benefits is the lack of 1 set of idler bearings and belt. Which have been known to fail and take out the timing belt, resulting in a big mess.

I don't do enough miles in the car to be worried about harshness, so I think I'll be taking the balance belt off.
I think at the same time I'll also be swapping over the inlet manifold, and removing the aircon pump.

What on earth could go wrong?
Evodelta
10-09-12, 14:28
The shafts are there to smooth out some of the vibrations, however in a reasonably balanced motor there shouldn't be much to smooth out.

The benefits of removing the beltshafts is that there is less rotating mass in the engine so less power lost and a little bit more going to the transmission.

However one of the major benefits is the lack of 1 set of idler bearings and belt. Which have been known to fail and take out the timing belt, resulting in a big mess.



+ Increase in oil pressure, probably the most important point of replacing the BS shafts.
Steve Webb
10-09-12, 14:34
+ Increase in oil pressure, probably the most important point of replacing the BS shafts.

Yep, but you won't get an increase if you just remove the belt and prevent the front shaft from rotating, will you?
Evodelta
10-09-12, 20:25
No you certainly won't.
Steve Webb
10-09-12, 21:52
But will removing the belt and parking the shafts reduce pressure at all?
AlfaJack
10-09-12, 22:06
Mine hasn't changed - still low as normal! I guess the outlet for the shaft is always under the same resistance.