View Full Version : It's cambelt time again
This time it is firm engraved in my mind that the crank bolt is left hand thread (despite the arrow in the manual).
I need a quick reminded on the bits I need. I am planning to leave the balancer belt off this time and see how it goes but I think I am right in saying that I need the balancer belt pulley (the one near the front of the engine) bearing as the cambelt backs on to it?
Order list:
Cambelt
Cambelt tensioner
Balance shaft pulley bearing
Aux belt
Air-con belt
PS belt
Have I missed anything?
Thanks,
Jack
Steve Webb
27-03-12, 17:31
Miniature hands and knuckle plasters.
Seriously, doesn't look like you've missed anything.
How is your water pump? Not worth changing at the same time?
How is your water pump? Not worth changing at the same time?
I always did the waterpump to, no matter what.
Aren't there any auxillery belt tensioner for the airco belt?
I don't have airco (yet) so could be mistaking.
the wombat
27-03-12, 18:56
Surgical gloves - extra layer of skin for this job!!!
Do the water pump...mine thankfully failed with the warning of some steam, not worth risking if it's never been changed.
wrinx
Look at you lot adding expense to my little project! OK will do. It failed about 4 years ago whilst out, a recovery truck later and it was back in the garage. Unfortunately it was a job that defeated me as I couldn't get the damn thing out! I know now that I just needed to drop the engine a bit to free it up.
Steve Webb
29-03-12, 07:16
Time to bring back some Victorian values I say. Having an 8 year old helper with small hands would make some jobs like this so much easier. :ohmy:
All ordered inc an SKF Water pump and cam cover gasket (at long last). He had a cheaper pump (by about £10) but it had a plastic impeller so I went with the metal one. Not keen on engine internals being plastic!
Juan AR155Q4
29-03-12, 21:01
You can't leave the balancer shaft without the belt because you need to look the balancer shaft. It'll be turned by the bearing where the camblet backs on.
Steve Webb
29-03-12, 21:13
Where did you get it all from Jack?
Thanks Juan. That is a shame. I know you can buy a removal kit but I have been told (even by a Lancia mechanic to just leave the belt off). What is the best method to lock the front balance shaft?
Steve - I got it all from Alternative Autos - they don't have a website...I spoke to them at some length about this but they just are not in to it as they do alright as they are. I think he thought I was telling him to get a fully fledged e-commerce site so I just recommended a homepage with contact details as I had trouble finding their number again.
If the car is running on Sunday night I will be astounded!
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23008.jpg
Steve Webb
30-03-12, 10:50
Crikey that was a quick delivery. If you speak with them again ask if they want a free advert on the site.
Will do. Cheers Steve. Yup, seems the standard with the likes of them and AlfaShop etc - £10 and it is with you next morning.
Found the answer to locking the balance shafts courtesy of Guy Croft.
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?p=8011#p8974
My dad kindly made this for me - I promptly destroyed it but letting the pulley turn as I used the torque wrench on it - he said he will do another!
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23016.jpg
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23017.jpg
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23025.jpg
Other pics from todays surgery:
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23018.jpg
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23019.jpg
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23020.jpg
PS Pump relocated lower down the bracket
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23022.jpg
More space:
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/23024.jpg
It is done and drove it back to my place under its own steam. I am not entirely happy as the lack of a balance belt really is noticeable under acceleration. When cruising it is fine. I think I can live with it. However, there is also a squeal under acceleration too which needs investigating. Nice to get the PS pump moved and the AC gone. Simplifies things a bit.
Steve Webb
01-04-12, 21:30
Glad you got it all sorted Jack, still got the skin on your knuckles?
What sort of vibration is it with the lack of balance shafts, and just how bad is it?
Also did you get rid of anything in the cabin of the car when you removed the AC pump? Have you got rid of the AC rad as well?
No skin left.
It is best described as a harshness to the engine. It does shake or anything but feels less re-fined and for a largely un-refined engine it is noticeable.
No other changes with regards to AC yet - I never installed that rad I bought off you about 7 years ago before you moved and decided it is unlikely that I will. I just need to remove the canister now and the pipes.
Steve Webb
01-04-12, 22:24
I never installed that rad I bought off you about 7 years ago before you moved and decided it is unlikely that I will.
I'd forgotten that was you, I hope you're not after a refund :dry:
Steve Webb
25-08-13, 21:36
Looks like I'll be talking to Alternative Autos next week, the Q4 (started her up today for the first time in ages) needs a full belt change before I bring it back to the UK. Can't remember the last time the Aux belts got done so it looks like its gonna be all the tensioners and all 5 belts.
The question is, are all the belts and tensioners the same as the Fiat coupe 16vt?
Yup pretty sure they are. Give them the last 8 digits of the chassis number and they will match it all up.
Steve Webb
27-08-13, 09:02
Right thats all ordered, time to say goodbye to all the skin on my knuckles!
Did you order a water pump too?
wrinx
Steve Webb
27-08-13, 09:12
Already got one (metal impeller) in the garage waiting to go in. Good job as well as the current one is grumbling and appears to be dripping water down onto the crank pulley!!
Steve Webb
04-09-13, 07:25
Everything is here now, I've got a free Sunday coming up, so it looks like I'll be back on the road soon. Can't wait.....to find all those other little niggles as well.
As yours gets on the road mine is coming off!
I have bought a 156 SW to tide me over for a bit whilst I weld and repair various niggles.
It would fail an MOT on a few places at the moment so love and care for it is well overdue.
Steve Webb
08-09-13, 15:41
Well the belt change is going ok so far, the only issue I've got at the moment is how to shift the exhaust side balancer shaft pulley to get to the bearing behind it? The manual seems to indicate its on pretty tight. Also is it a standard thread or reversed like the crank bolt?
Steve Webb
08-09-13, 19:07
Right, just spent a while trying to get that bloody pulley off. Apart from the special Alfa tool, does anyone have any hints of tips on how to get it off.
Really need to know if its a standard thread for a start.
The new waterpump is in now without too many problems.
Unfortunately my appalling memory can't retrieve anything about the balancer belt??? :roll:
wrinx
Standard thread on the exhaust side balance belt pulley.
I struggled too. I gripped it with some rubber strips around it and a pipe wrench - I did damage the teeth a little the first time so I filed the burs down. Second time I was not bothered as I don't have the belt anymore. It is very very awkward though.
I think getting it in a position and having it sort of locked and then hit the spanner for the bolt and the shock will hopefully be enough.
Wrinx did you not use a C spanner?
Steve Webb
09-09-13, 06:09
Cheers for that Jack, I'll knock something up to try and grip the pulley tonight, probably using the old belt to protect the pulley. I can just get the impact wrench on the bolt so should be able to shift it. Its a pain in the ass though isn't it.
Wrinx did you not use a C spanner?
Now that sounds familiar...worked very well iirc.
wrinx
Found the post:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g118/wrinx/Q4/BeltsEtc/BalancerTool.jpg
wrinx
Also found this post by Evodelta: "To remove the balancer shaft mounted bearings put a long stout bolt (about 6") in the teeth of the pulley and prop it against something equally as strong to stop it from turning, don't get hold of it with bodge-it grips and mash it up."
http://forum.berlinasportivo.com/showthread.php?t=1055&highlight=belt
wrinx
Steve Webb
09-09-13, 23:22
Well its finally off, with no damage to anything either. Went back to a redneck type solution.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/1239852_10202216958330635_1552493029_n.jpg?oh=98cd a7c95060ac65558f8d77503b98e2&oe=522FE537&__gda__=1378937669_13173f22cd8b61643c5c21538c264d8 3
The piece of wood slips over the pulley and is then bolted up tight to stop the pulley turning. Being wood it doesn't damage the pulley either. Then attack the bolt with impact wrench until bolt comes undone. Which in my case was quite a while.
Can start putting it all back together now.
Steve Webb
10-09-13, 06:41
Pondering whether or not to actually put the balance shaft belt back on. Life looks much simpler without it in there. But I was thinking about locking the balance shaft pulley.
The front balancer shaft will turn because the cambelt idler bearing is connected to it, if running without BSB it needs locking to the nearest unused pulley with a large hose clip.
Now this seems quite a simple way of locking the pulley, but it doesn't 'feel' a very permanent solution. Is it really a good way of going about it?
Pondering whether or not to actually put the balance shaft belt back on. Life looks much simpler without it in there. But I was thinking about locking the balance shaft pulley.
Now this seems quite a simple way of locking the pulley, but it doesn't 'feel' a very permanent solution. Is it really a good way of going about it?
It depends how much you want to arse around, both methods (the other earlier in the thread) do the same job.
I'd like to see the GC method on a new customer engine build, but if I was arsing around on an old engine of my own then I'd just bung a clip on.
There is a time and a place for nicely engineered solutions and also for quick permanent fixes.
Steve Webb
10-09-13, 16:49
AlfaJack , does the thickness of the plate you use to lock the balance shaft affect the alignment at all? i.e. make the belt run off the bearing?
I don't think so - it seems fine to me. Very fiddly to make and then awkward to do it up which keeping it still so it doesn't get mashed up behind the bearing.
Steve Webb
10-09-13, 18:46
I might give it a go, seems a better solution than the jubilee clip to be honest. Given the hassle that aligning the balance shafts is going to be, I think I'll be happier with one less belt in there.
I might give it a go, seems a better solution than the jubilee clip to be honest. Given the hassle that aligning the balance shafts is going to be, I think I'll be happier with one less belt in there.
It will feel rough when you first drive it but you soon forget :)
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