Buyer's advice?

[DukeTogo1313]

Hello,

(first meandering post, apologies)

I'm in Japan, and a soon-to-be Alfa owner, and I'd just like some general feedback from people who know these cars inside and out.

Up to this point I've owned Toyotas exclusively - 3 MR2s and 2 Celica GT-FOURs. My last MR2 was a '92 with a 420hp 2.2L stroker and a zillion mods. My ST185 Celica GT-FOUR (which is still in the family) has a ST205 engine, GT28rs turbo upgrade and MBC. It's healthy at a manageable 275 awhp.

Anyway, this this isn't about my previous cars, I just wanted to post some background. I think I'm done modding cars, actually. However, I really loved the turbo + all-wheel combo of the GT-FOURs and I'm seriously interested in the Alfa 155 Q4. Actually, I'm interested in all kinds of Alfas, but that's another thread.

I've lived in Tokyo for 2 years now, and while there are plenty of Alfas to be seen, there are not many 155 Q4s here. There are, however, a decent amount of Lancia Delta Integrales on the road here - so there must be someone with expertise enough to keep those things running. My research up to this point has revealed to me that these are similar cars, mechanically.

What I'd really like to know is, in stock form, is the Q4 reliable? The general consensus among the Japanese community here is that the Q4 and Integrale are great fun to drive but maintenance is (or can be) something of a nightmare. It's pretty overwhelming in that regard. Most Japanese reviews state that their Q4 spent more time broken, than on the road.

I've done a lot of reading here, and I keep seeing members referring to their cars as "money pit" and other names, but then turn around and say they are generally really tough and reliable. I'm having a hard time reading between the lines here.

I'm in a position to buy a fun car, mainly as a personal toy (I don't need it to commute), and I don't mind spending money to maintain a car. However, I spent way too much money on my last MR2, and also my first ST185 GT-FOUR. To put that in perspective, I put around $30k USD into the MR2, and probably $12k USD into the GT-FOUR (not including the purchase price of the vehicles) over several years.

So I'm not really looking to modify this Q4. I'm not looking to tempt fate and get stuck in another money pit either.

I really want something I can get in and drive, and I'd like to have enough confidence to drive it into the mountains on a camping trip, etc.

More background on me: I do not have a garage, I have a covered rental space. I don't have many tools, and I'm not really into wrenching on my own cars. I've changed air filters, changed the oil, changed tires, headlights, batteries - that sort of thing, but I don't have the space, or the inclination to fabricate my own intercooler or anything like that.

I've found a Q4 that looks great. If it's been maintained properly, should I get several years of mainly trouble-free enjoyment?

I'm aware of common issues with timing belt tensioner, water pump, rust...If you've got a checklist of things to check / fix / change / replace when you buy a Q4, please fire away!

For reference, this is the car I'm considering:

http://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/15/0900110901W4000521005.html

Many thanks for anyone who read this long post! I appreciate any and all feedback.



Cheers,
Duke


P.S. I did find 2 other threads in the Q4 Tech area titled "Buyers Guide," but neither contained any buyer's guide info! :)

[Steve Webb]

Hi Duke,

welcome to the forum.

As standard, I would say the standard Q4 is a pretty reliable beast, but you do have to bear in mind that even the youngest Q4 is going to be at least 14 years old now.
You do need to keep on top of maintenance though, good quality oils throughout are an absolute must as is the dreaded cam belt AND balance shaft belt. The standard intervals for these are 3 years or 36k miles whichever is soonest.

Electrical gremlins are pretty common, crappy quality connectors are the usual suspect. Although buying a Japanese car does mean that you won't have the usual European problem of the car being run on salted roads in the winter.

Corrosion of the car itself is nowhere near as bad as every non-Alfa owner will tell you. Alfa started galvanizing cars with the 75 and the 155 is fully galvanized. However there are a few sections of the car and structure that are beginning to show signs of rust now.

The drivetrain is more than capable of handling the standard power output, so as long as you don't use the car to practice your standing starts it should be fine. This goes all the way down to the wheel bearings, I believe mine is still on its standard set, 140k miles and 17 years.

The one you linked to is a series 1 car, so should come complete with the waterspray kit in the back. They usually don't work due to a missing relay, but that is dead easy to fix.

My Japanese is pretty non existent, how many miles does that car have on it, and what sort of price it it?

[jNk]

...My Japanese is pretty non existent, how many miles does that car have on it, and what sort of price it it?

82.000km / ~51.000miles
680.000Yen / ~6.150Euro

At least according to the Google Translated (http://translate.google.hu/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=hu&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goo-net.com%2Fusedcar%2Fspread%2Fgoo%2F15%2F0900110901 W4000521005.html&act=url) page.

[DukeTogo1313]

That's all correct. How does that sit with the mileage / prices you guys regularly see?

[DukeTogo1313]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the salutations and the info, much appreciated!

I meant to say cam belt, rather than timing belt...running on lots of caffeine these days. Everything else you posted is good news for me, and backs up other research I've done so far.

I've spent a lot of time looking up shops that specialize in Alfas, and there actually seem to be quite a few in the Tokyo area, which is a good sign, I'll need the support. Since the Q4 is a bit of an exotic bird here, most shops only have maintenance listed for the v6 and Twin Spark 155s on their websites, like these guys:

http://www.tanahashi.co.jp/timing_belt.html

Timing belt & water pump v6: approx. 1,445.00 euro
Timing belt & water pump Twin Spark: approx. 1,094.00 euro

Does that seem a bit steep?

I'm aware that the Q4 doesn't use either of those engines, but rather the same (?) engine as the Lancia Delta HF Integrale, a 2.0L 16v turbo, correct? If a shop can service the Integrale, can I assume they can service the Q4?

I found a couple of shops that service Lancia's quoting about 428 euro for timing belt work. How's that in comparison? Seems reasonable to me.

I'm going to call around and get some pricing, but I have yet to find any maintenance numbers specifically for Q4s listed on any sites in Japan.

---

Slightly off-topic, I prefer AWD or RWD. So when I found out the 155 was FWD, I had almost given up on it (after falling in love with the design), but when I discovered the Q4, all the blood came rushing back...

Before I found the Q4, I'd found these two beauties:

1991 Alfa 75 Twin Spark
http://www.gooworld.jp/usedcar/spread/goow/16/700973002620110521001.html

1988 Alfetta GTV6
http://www.gooworld.jp/usedcar/spread/goow/12/700040270120100331001.html

Any personal thoughts on those Alfas? I know they're going to be totally different animals from a Q4...but what can I say? I'm a man of contrasting tastes. :)



Cheers,
Duke

P.S. Beautiful, well sorted rides in the Garage section on here!

[DukeTogo1313]

D'oh! Here's a '96 widebody...for 4500 euro, approx 50k miles.

http://tinyurl.com/4ym6lcr

[Steve Webb]

Apart from the wheels, that looks pretty attractive. Its got aftermarket front and rear bumpers, or at the very least they have been messed with, and different sideskirts.
Also looks to have half leather Recaro interior, far far better than the standard Euro seats.

[wrinx]

Yes, the bumpers look like Lester or something similar...I'd prefer the originals tbh.

wrinx

[DukeTogo1313]

Yes, the bumpers look like Lester or something similar...I'd prefer the originals tbh.


So far, I prefer the original look as well. Also, the '96 for sale there mentions no maintenance history :sad:

[DukeTogo1313]

Also, I've tried this page in all browsers, on both Windows & Mac, and I think it's busted...

http://berlinasportivo.com/marquespec/Alfa/buyer/q4buyer.php

I've been looking for some information that will easily help me identify series 1 cars vs. series 2 cars.

Do you guys prefer one over the other? If so, why? Thanks again for all your kind feedback.


Cheers,
Duke

[Steve Webb]

Its not you with that page, theres a bit of an issue with it. Its work in progress so not fully populated yet. I'll have a look later on and let you know when its working.

Series 1 : Open style headrests and doorpockets with slashes in them.
Series 2 : Filled in headrests and solid door pockets.

Thats the easiest way to pick between the 2.

Not much to choose between an S1 and S2, apart from the S1 has the waterspray.

Oh and regarding your earlier question, an Integrale specialist will be much more familiar with a Q4 than a regular Alfa specialist, so I'd be looking there for your maintenance.

The Integrale belt change price was about right I guess, but you need to make sure that both the Cambelt and Balance shaft belts along with the idler bearings are changed. Any one of these things failing can cause the cambelt to snap\jump.