Inlet manifold.

[Steve Webb]

I'm sure we were discussing this before, but I guess it got lost at the start of the year.

Anyway, had a quick look at the manifold when I had my head stuck under the bonnet yesterday. Am I correct in assuming that to get the inlet manifold off with the head\engine in situ, all the lower jubilee clips need to be placed so you can get to them with a screwdriver\socket from above?

[AlfaJack]

Yes that is right. Will be hard otherwise.

[Steve Webb]

Bugger!

[santino]

Am I correct in assuming that to get the inlet manifold off with the headengine in situ, all the lower jubilee clips need to be placed so you can get to them with a screwdriversocket from above?

Sorry Steve, I don't understand these words, can you explain please? My english isn't really good...:thinking-011:

I can buy inlet manifold with fuel/injector rail from kappa 16vt for 10e but I don't know what's really different, because has a lot of work to transplantation that...

I read about that in another thread and I saw difference in air flow. In HP? Something another? 6cfm more sounds a little for more power?

[Steve Webb]

Hi Santino,

the inlet runners are connected to the head via short rubber tubes that are held in place by clips that you use a screwdriver to tighten up. (jubilee clips)
http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/images/jubilee-clip.jpg

If you can get to them from the top then getting the inlet manifold off of the car is a lot easier.

I've not seen a Kappa inlet manifold fitted to a Q4, ?10 isn't much money for one, but you will have to work out if it is worth fitting if it doesn't flow much better than the standard Q4/ Especially if it will need lots of work to make it fit.

[wrinx]

10 euros! :shock:

Last one on ebay went for over ?150!

Are there any more...?

wrinx

[Steve Webb]

There are a couple of 8v Integrale ones on ebay at the moment for @ €70.

[Steve Webb]

There are pics of the Kappa inlet manifold on a website that Wrinx linked to. Without seeing one in the flesh I don't know whether I would bother swapping it for the standard Q4 one.

Here is a Kappa inlet\Plenum

http://www.lanciahf.eu/images/Collecteur_Lancia_Kappa/kappa-manifold3.jpg

The inlet runners seem to be considerably shorter than the Q4 ones, this is going to favour top end power at the expense of low end torque.

But to me the plenum looks to be pretty small. Opinions vary on the ideal size of the plenum but they usually fall in the 0.8-3 times the displacement of the engine. I'd say the Kappa inlet is right at the lower end of that. When the plenum is too small, then you start to get imbalance in the amount of air being admitted to each cylinder.

As with all these things though, it would be interesting to do a back to back test on the same engine, with a Q4 inlet then a Kappa one to see exactly what difference it makes.

[santino]

I don't see any picture

cone design of intake manifold is better because air flow is more equal for all cylinders than std.

http://www.speedforceracing.com/published/publicdata/SPEEDFORCERACINGSTORE/attachments/SC/products_pictures/supra_5_9_enl.jpg


http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1438/inmani2.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/i/inmani2.jpg/)


http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3465/inmani1.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/inmani1.jpg/)


The best way to improve intake manifold is build new one with easier injector accessibility...

I have tried on my 24v naturally aspirated with small plenum from 12v (capacity 2.7 liter) and big plenum (originally from 24v, capacity 3.9 liter) and difference are huge in hi revs with bigger plenum.

[Steve Webb]

Try this link Santino, there are a few pics of the Inlet manifold on

HERE (http://www.lanciahf.eu/kappa-manifold.html)

[1NRO]

Kappa manifold beats the Q4 manifold all day long, much better. Still left a little lacking if the cylinder head is worked over, it's a little too narrow a runner. I like them though.

Tapering the plenum doesn't do a great deal, the air is still banging into the end and runner distribution suffers as such.

Shortening the runner doesn't make much difference to low rpm performance if combined with head porting and quality manifold design, the gain you might get from the pulses doesn't really happen on a normal manifold anyway, its all a bit too hectic in there with it being a single plenum. A shortened runner than is provided with the means to utilise the intake pulses (two plenums with a dividing partition) is a different matter, it'll give you an extra shove when the engine is at it's best performing.

[jimnielsen]

I have been looking for a kappa manifold for ages - anybody have any ideas where I can source one?

jim~

[mpampis_]

i think fitting a Kappa inlet manifold have even advantages and disadvantages. it is the cheapest solution for having something more and of course the advantage is that there is a direct air flow but i think is smaller than ours.

[Steve Webb]

Kappa manifold beats the Q4 manifold all day long, much better. Still left a little lacking if the cylinder head is worked over, it's a little too narrow a runner. I like them though.

Do you have figures for the size of the Plenum compared to the Q4 one.

In some pics it almost looks like the plenum narrows after the throttle body bolts on. (where it goes from a circular to triangular cross section.)

The transition area from the plenum to the runners looks well designed on the Kappa inlet though.

[Steve Webb]

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3465/inmani1.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/inmani1.jpg/)



I like the overall shape of this inlet, its halfway between an end entry and central entry plenum. Totally impractical for the Q4 though, just not enough space.
And I don't think enough thought has gone into where the runners join the plenum

[mpampis_]

it looks great for ours even it is big enough to fit it in Q4...it is also for 6 cylinders haha

[mpampis_]

http://scara73.it/collettori/co7.html
this looks good too, and i think we can fit it on our Q4

[AlfaJack]

Didn't Stuntz make his own too?

[Steve Webb]

it looks great for ours even it is big enough to fit it in Q4...it is also for 6 cylinders haha

I only said I liked the overall shape of the manifold, didn't mention anything about fitting it, :tongue: I saw it was for a 6 cylinder car, honest.

[Steve Webb]

http://scara73.it/collettori/co7.html
this looks good too, and i think we can fit it on our Q4

Er interesting design, but imho that welding looks shite.

[mpampis_]

I only said I liked the overall shape of the manifold, didn't mention anything about fitting it, :tongue: I saw it was for a 6 cylinder car, honest.
i know, i just was joking :thumbsup: i am trying to find out too what is the best inlet manifold because i want to change mine too. i really have no idea because i am confused with so many opinions generally that's why i was thinking enrico's (scara73)

[mindus]

Do you have figures for the size of the Plenum compared to the Q4 one.


Q4 plenum is a very small one, a box type very narrow plenum. Kappa one looks bigger in reality, though I did not measured any of them...
The attached is a picture of both.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4637/dsc00689ov.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/dsc00689ov.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[1NRO]

Do you have figures for the size of the Plenum compared to the Q4 one.

In some pics it almost looks like the plenum narrows after the throttle body bolts on. (where it goes from a circular to triangular cross section.)

The transition area from the plenum to the runners looks well designed on the Kappa inlet though.

The kappa manifold has a plenum about the same size as engine capacity, while ago I measured so can't remember exactly but certainly close to that.

[Steve Webb]

That Kappa manifold is starting to look more and more attractive.

[santino]

I like the overall shape of this inlet, its halfway between an end entry and central entry plenum. Totally impractical for the Q4 though, just not enough space.
And I don't think enough thought has gone into where the runners join the plenum

I only wanted to show how the shape should look like... We understand.

This would work only when move battery to the trunk due to lack of space under the bonnet...

Whether fit throttle case from q4 on kappa manifold?

[Steve Webb]

I only wanted to show how the shape should look like... We understand.

This would work only when move battery to the trunk due to lack of space under the bonnet...

Whether fit throttle case from q4 on kappa manifold?

My battery is already in the boot, so I've got a little extra space to play with under the bonnet. I do like the overall look of that inlet, but it will take an awful lot of work to make it fit.

I saw an advert on ebay.fr for a whole load of Kappa turbo stuff, but the manifold and injector rail were already sold :angry:

[1NRO]

:wave: