View Full Version : Clutch Issues (again..)
jimnielsen
30-05-10, 22:07
At Sandown this weekend, all was going well until, there was suddenly no clutch pedal :(
Anyway, I managed to get it into a gear an limp back to the pits in 2nd gear which was better than suffering the ignominy of being towed from the track.
I soon discovered that the rod that comes out of the clutch slave cylinder (and presses on the lever that operates the clutch) was gone - as was the small piston from inside the the clutch slave cylinder - so no fluid either.. I noticed that the lever arm on the outside of the clutch bell housing that operates the release bearing was all the way forward... So either the fork arms that carry the release bearing have broken, the release bearing has broken, or the arms have simply slipped out!
I tried to be very careful when I was putting in the new clutch plate a few weeks ago to make sure that I had the fork arms engaged in the bearing - and I did about 15 laps at Sandown before the clutch 'went'!
Anyone any ideas as to what has happened? Obviously the gearbox has got to come out again - not something I was really looking forwards too..
I don't supposed that anyone would have a spare slave cylinder that I could buy??
jim~
Bad luck Jim....A new slave cylinder is pretty cheap though :)
jimnielsen
31-05-10, 00:10
So you think that I could purchase a complete one from an Alfa dealer?
what about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CLUTCH-SLAVE-CYLINDER-LANCIA-DELTA-INTEGRALE-100-/130393557606?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5c0fca66
jimnielsen
31-05-10, 08:17
well, I set a new record - (at least for me) for gearbox removal - 3.5 hrs. Looks like the problem was that I did not have the arms of the clutch mechanism engaged in the slots on the release bearing - just on the side of its body - and it worked the clutch for a while - but then pulled free as you can see by the marks on the side of the body..Oh well. I am going to make a hole in the bell housing so that I can see if there is proper engagement...
jim..
any specific leads on where I can get a new clutch slave cylinder would be appreciated....
http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Results&category=11&secondary=13&opts=35&btnViewProducts=Search
http://www.alternativeautos.demon.co.uk/
Happy help out if delivery overseas is a problem and I can get a small discount on the S4P price.
wrinx
This guy is helpful too, used him for all my shims...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLUTCH-SLAVE-CYLINDER-ALFA-ROMEO-155-V6-Q4-100-/140410130425?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20b1188ff9
wrinx
jimnielsen
31-05-10, 13:21
Thanks wrinx... I'll get that last one on eBay - just easier ... What do you think the (100) means in the title?? Do you think that this is the right product? Sure looks like it to me ??
I've never seen this before!
Don't cut a hole in the bell housing just yet. Try and figure out what went wrong first. I've never done a Q4 clutch before but it should have a spring that secures it all on the fork. Was that there? I cant see how it could come off if its all installed correctly.
Juan AR155Q4
31-05-10, 16:47
Sorry Jim but didn?t undersood you well.
Did you engage in this slots?
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3028/clutchl.jpg
jimnielsen
31-05-10, 21:46
Steve, what went wrong is that I didn't get the clutch arms into the place on the release bearing where it is supposed to go..
I have an old pressure plate with the release bearing still installed. I have actually tried to remove the bearing before so that I could install it as if it was new with the release bearing and the pressure plate separate. But I could NOT remove the bearing. I took it to a clutch workshop and they could not remove it either. I will look at this possibility again today, Can you be any more specific about how to separate the release bearing ?
jim.
I have tried separating them before too. I think they may be a one time fitting. The way I did it was by attaching the gearbox to the engine with the engine out and on the floor with everything lined up. Not easy though and think I got lucky more than anything else.
Thanks wrinx... I'll get that last one on eBay - just easier ... What do you think the (100) means in the title?? Do you think that this is the right product? Sure looks like it to me ??
Yeah, looks ok to me too. Drop him a message if you're not sure, he's very helpful.
Looks like the "100" is just some numbering system he's using, lots of his other auctions are similarly labelled.
wrinx
jimnielsen
01-06-10, 05:27
Thanks wrinx, the part number matches on EPER - so I bought one. Also I have rigged up a camera so that I can make sure that the clutch arms (the arrow on the left) go into the release bearing slots (the arrow on the right). I can see from the camera that the bearing has a tendency to move position as I try to get the gearbox into the correct position...
jim.
Great idea...
So does anyone "in the know" have a way to separate the release bearing from the pressure plate so it can be put back together in the more conventional way?
OK, I've never actually had to do this but I have thought about "what if I did" while installing new clutches. The collar on the bearing is tapered and spring loaded so it can depress as it is pushed through the fingers. Why can't it just be depressed in and extracted again? Something like a hose clamp may do the job.
This got me thinking that there must be a special tool for this. So I did a little hunting and found it
1875089000 - clutch disc centering pin
1875084000 - tool for removing thrust bearing from clutch release mechanism
Pic
http://lancisti.jp/parts/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=279&language=en
It looks like the tool (the ring part) is used by pressing it on the tapered part of the collar to depress it.
Looks quite simple to make up if need be :) Thanks.
jimnielsen
02-06-10, 07:39
Thanks SteveNZ, it was really from the picture of the tool that you posted that I started to believe that you CAN get the release bearing out. Unfortunately, I had been listening to all the people who said that it could not be done..that didn't help!
Anyway, after a while you can do it in just a few seconds, but you have to know how.. I have made a brief video of the process for the curious!
YouTube- Clutch Release Bearing Removal.wmv
This was using an old bearing/pressure plate that I had around..
However, I practically had the gearbox bolted up to the engine again already before this.. using a pressure plate with the bearing still attached. So all I really had to do was to make absolutely sure that I got the proper engagement between the clutch "forks" and the bearing - so I used ClutchCam (tm) for that purpose..
YouTube- ClutchCam.AVI
This video wont mean anything to anyone really, but it does show the forks captive in the place in the bearing where it is supposed to be!
But next time i would simply remove the release bearing and install it on the forks, as if it was a new install, clutchcam can still be handy though, because its quite a job to reinstall the clutch just to fix errors..
Well done Jim...some good solutions! :)
wrinx
Cheers Jim - glad it can be done! That video is worth a thread of it's own to be stuck at the top!
jimnielsen
08-06-10, 11:19
My shiny new clutch slave cylinder arrived and has been duly fitted..thanks Wrinx - the guy you recommended got it from the UK to Australia in just 5 days!
The manual says to provide a clutch stroke of 16.4mm - I have not tested it yet, but I don't think I need anywhere near that much travel to disengage the clutch. I have a stop under the pedal, and i think that I will just adjust it to the minimum travel to disengage the clutch effectively.
jim..
..thanks Wrinx - the guy you recommended got it from the UK to Australia in just 5 days!
No problem, I've found him to be very helpful :)
wrinx
That looks identical to the slave on my Fiat Uno turbo. I had to rebuild it and when I got the seal kit it was listed for an Alfa 33! These things seem to have a habit of all being the same!
But next time i would simply remove the release bearing and install it on the forks, as if it was a new install
Just to confirm Jim's little tip does work (yes, I know the video proves it :)) as the JTD clutch I'm messing with is exactly the same "pull" type...so thanks Jim :)
Also to confirm, the release bearing needs to come off to be refitted, if you're doing a re-install...as I'm doing :roll:
How are you getting on with the paddle clutch Jim? I had one on my JTD and hated it! But then it's a road car and there was far too much vibration.
wrinx
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.