Alfa CODE problem.

[arjunior45]

Since I bought the car I'm using the 'Master' key and yesterday I tried to memorize a couple of new keys for my car, using the 'Master' key and following the procedure indicated in the 'workshop manual'.
When I insert the 'new' keys, the 'Alfa CODE' warning light on the dashboard never goes off and I can not memorize the keys.
Engine start with the 'Master' {brown} key all the time without any problem but I can not make it start with the new keys - as it should be with 'unknown - unmemorized' keys!

I can not understand why the 'Alfa Code' warning light does not go off as mentioned on the manual!
Does anyone has any idea?

The only 'think' I suspect is that I'm using the FIAT Coupe 16VT eprom with 'IMMO' and that might be the problem.

[Q4Jan]

My car had when i bought it a specialy made eprom without the keycheck. So some part of the check is in the chip, I expect it in your case to want the fiat coupe code somehow.

[arjunior45]

Do not know for sure.
My 'Master' key is the oem one. I suspect that the new red key is not coded at all {it is blank as the supplier told me later} and the immobilizer can not find any code to memorize! So the warning light stays on during the procedure.
Monday I try to write a code {any code with 5 digits} and then I'll try to memorize the key again.

[Evodelta]

Have you opened up the plastic bit of the red key? The chip is in there (if you have one!)

Or are you saying it is in there, but blank?

What are your thoughts on what some people are saying about Eproms which don't have a lifetime memory? I don't know how much this will affect our cars, but I read recently that It could mean newer cars being rendered useless after a certain amount of time - accidental or manufacturers doing it on purpose?

Sorry to divert the thread, but it caught my eye as I have just bought a cheap 16vt with some sort of immobiliser problem, I couldn't help it I've always had a soft spot for these cars! It's got no silver key, but does have red and blue ones, has the Code light on which won't go out, and the engine won't even turn over.
I haven't looked into the problem in too much depth yet, just performed the usual and easy procedures which have done nothing.
It is being made more difficult by the fact that it has a Toad immobiliser spliced into the loom, If I can't get anything to work next time I look at it I may have to remove it although it would be a shame as it is a nice addition to the car and looks well fitted.

[jimnielsen]

can't you simply run the non "immo' code on the ECU's from these type of cars?

[arjunior45]

Have you opened up the plastic bit of the red key? The chip is in there (if you have one!)

Or are you saying it is in there, but blank?

What are your thoughts on what some people are saying about Eproms which don't have a lifetime memory? I don't know how much this will affect our cars, but I read recently that It could mean newer cars being rendered useless after a certain amount of time - accidental or manufacturers doing it on purpose?

Sorry to divert the thread, but it caught my eye as I have just bought a cheap 16vt with some sort of immobiliser problem, I couldn't help it I've always had a soft spot for these cars! It's got no silver key, but does have red and blue ones, has the Code light on which won't go out, and the engine won't even turn over.
I haven't looked into the problem in too much depth yet, just performed the usual and easy procedures which have done nothing.
It is being made more difficult by the fact that it has a Toad immobiliser spliced into the loom, If I can't get anything to work next time I look at it I may have to remove it although it would be a shame as it is a nice addition to the car and looks well fitted.

well,
the 'red' key I bought recently has the chip in it but it is blank {and need to be coded-programmed before memorized}. This key is the so called 'main' key and it is the one that should be used everyday.
The 'master' key, for the Alfas, is a 'brown' one and this key must be kept appart and used only on emergency and in case you-we want to memorize new keys for the immobilizer {can memorize up to 7 different 'main'-red keys}. This is the only key I have and used so far.

I think that for FIAT, the 'master' key is the 'red' one {'brown' for Alfa} and the 'main' keys are the 'blue' keys {'red' one for Alfa} which are used for everyday driving.

Does the warning light stays on even with the 'master' key {the red one for FIAT} you have? Or does it stay on with the 'main' keys {'blue' one} only?


If the warning light stays on with the 'master' key and the engine does not start, then someone made something stupid with the keys and the immobilizer and, in this case, you have 2 options {as far I know} :
1} to change the immobilizer with a new one, along with the 'master' and the 'main' keys.
or
2} you can use the eprom-map from the 16VT without immobilizer! They are the eproms 194.04 and 194.05 {I can email you these map files if you want}. In this case, you must be able to start the engine and run the car without problem. Only that the 'warning' light will stay on {but the engine will start and run}. At least this is how things 'work' with the 'Alfa CODE' immo on a Q4.
[Note : on a car with immo you can use the eproms-maps for the cars without immo. But on a car without immo you can not use the eprom-map with immo.]

Another thing you can do with the 'master' {red} key is to test if the key you have is the oem {original} 'master' key. You can do that with :
a} insert the 'master' kay and turn to 'marcia'. Warning light goes off after 0,7 sec {more or less}
b} as soon as the 'warning' light goes off, turn the key to 'stop' and within 10 sec turn the key back to 'marcia' again.
If the 'warning' light does not go off, then you have the original master key.


If the 'warning' light stays on only with the 'main' {blue} keys, then someone did something wrong with the 'memorizing' procedure of the 'main' keys.
In this case,
a} if the FIAT immobilizer is the same with the Alfa one {Alfa CODE 1} then you can re-memorize ALL the main keys you have at once. Just make sure you do not have two keys with the same code {even if one is the 'master' key and the second one is a 'main' key}.
[Note: with the Alfa CODE used on Q4, if you insert two keys with same code the procedure can not be completed and none key is memorized!].
and
b} if the FIAT immobilizer is a newer version, then 'memorizing' procedure is different and I was told that during this procedure all the codes-keys previously memorized are put in a sort of 'blacklist' and can not be re-memorized. That's the reason why with newer immobilizer it is used to copy the code from an original 'main' key to a new 'main' key and they avoid to go to the 'memorizing' procedure.

Hope this can help you

[Evodelta]

Thanks for taking the time for such a lengthy reply, I had a few minutes spare today and managed to get the light to go out, still a dead engine though. The Toad immo box clicks when I turn the ign key - I'm still wondering if this is faulty, I'll take another look later at some other suspects...

What does the standard FLA immo disable, starter? Fuel pump?

[wrinx]

The starter still turns the engine but nothing happens....so presumably just the fuel pump, but not 100% sure.

wrinx

[arjunior45]

Cut the ignition.

With engine off there is still some fuel under pressure in the circuit and you can start the engine for a few seconds even with fuel pump off. See the procedure for removing fuel rail for example.