View Full Version : Tuned Q4 -93
:cool: I bought this car more than a year ago, and have been rebuilding its engine and gearbox since then.. It had a broken cambelt from the previous owner and he had taken the engine out and disassembled the whole thing (not marking anything up) making it harder for me to put together since it?s my first Alfa, first four-wheel-drive and first car with turbo.. :rolleyes:
Me and my mechanic-brother have built this car from scratch with all the "good stuff", such as helix auto sinter-clutch (4puck), forged pistons and rods all balanced and weighed together with the crankshaft new precision Turbo (good for 600+) hoermann-exhaust manifold, 3" exhaust from turbo, big frontmounted intercooler and so on...
now to the question, we have finally come to the starting moment, doublechecked everything and it wont start!?
we have checked TDC and measured the resistance in the ignition leads but wont get any spark on cylinder 2 and 3..
here in Sweden on the local forums they say it?s a regular fault with these cars and its becaus of leads and/or plugs but all are new on my machine..
please help or come with tips to try at least!?
best regards from sweden
David
Here are some pictures of the engine and car...
http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/archive/52241/843209_s0hd6m.jpg
http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/archive/52241/843986_231y0g.jpg
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-1356143.jpg
http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/archive/52241/843987_28j6f4.jpg
Hi Dave, Welcome to the forum. Lovely looking car :cool:
Looking forward to see it develop.
Thank you very much, I have dreamt about having one of these for years, not easy to come bye even with the more common engines (twinspark or V6) here in Sweden.
Welcome :D
Coil packs...crank sensor?
wrinx
arjunior45
28-04-09, 08:10
Q4 has two ignition modules and two coil packs. One pair is for 1-4 cylinders and the second one for cylinders 2-3. So, if you do not have spark on 2 and 3 only {and you have spark on the other two} start checking the corresponding 'pair' {ignition module - coil pack}.
see attachment
Nick
Juan AR155Q4
28-04-09, 15:44
Nice!!!
I was in on the fault being one of the coil-packs as well, therefore I tried with other igniton-leads I had lying about (for a Volvo) with those there were a nice and good spark on all cylinders, so I ordered new ones today...
the future will tell if it is something more..:confused:
I have had thoughts about the following as well:
which spark plugs do you use, can it be those maybe (aswell), mine have three "taps" on them, never seen that before on a turbo-charged car, but these cars never stop surprise me :redface:
I used the injectors from a Volvo (5cyl turbo) as well to start with, since it is being tuned I reasoned it being a good idea to start with the original map and without the progressive fuel pressure regulator and the high-flowing injectors for the tuned-setup to see how everything works without pushing it from the beginning!?
which ohm is it on standard-injectors, and later on (or now maybe) how do I mount the resistance to change betwenn high/low-Ohm injectors (if I need to, that is)?
David
NGK B8EGV are very good plugs for the Q4.
arjunior45
29-04-09, 07:18
I think, but not 100% sure - need to check it, that we use the low impedance injectors.
B8EGV plugs are quite good and I use them in my car.
Nick
Juan AR155Q4
29-04-09, 21:54
High impedance injector (saturated), and if memory don?t fails me, 12ohm
Correct 12ohm Do not put low Ohm injectors in you car, you ECU Die right away.
Isn?t it possible to correct the Ohm-difference with resistances like on other tuned cars? thanks for the info on 12Ohm, arjunior45, Juan AR155Q4 and kepsus :)
I have also checked that the spark-plugs I use are the NGK-variant of the standard plugs for this car (Bosch WR6-DTC) dont?t remember the exact Bxxx number of my sparkplugs, buth shouldn?t be the reason why it wont start anyhow..
better luck tomorrow
Juan AR155Q4
04-05-09, 20:29
Somebody can double check the resistance?
Cause is just in my memory...
Sure you can put a resistances and the use the low ohm injectors. In fact they are know to be a bit better because they open close faster.
Juan AR155Q4
07-05-09, 21:40
Well, mistery solved:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5016/foto0021o.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/338/foto0020q.jpg
Ps: sorry, cel photos
About the spark plugs: The plugs recommended are Bosch with 3-side electrodes, but my experience and the the experience shared on the Lancia Delta forums is that the engine work much better with the NGK-plugs. BP-6ET for standard map, BP-7ET for up to 1,5 bar and 300-325 hp. B8-EGV was recommended by legendary Evocars, London, but my experience (with Evocars chip) is that it is too hard even a normal swedish summer day. At around 0 degrees C, it makes the engine run very harsh. However, If I should buy new plugs today I would go for the Denso Iridium plus, like IW20 or VW20, maybe 22 for higher boost. I haven't tried but I trust experienced Delta Evo tuners in this matter.
About injectors: I would start with standard injectors and 3,5 bar injection pressure, which gives you 415 ccm/min @ 0 bar boost and 497 ccm/min at 1,5 bar boost.
WR6DTC are NGK BPRR7ET. These are quite cold, there is no need to go to a colder "8" plug IMO. Single electrode plugs are ok, BKR7Es, BPR7Es or iridium etc equivalent
I have also use GL 2HL plugs
EGV plugs are racing gold paladium plugs, high quality but overkill for a road engine.
jimnielsen
27-05-09, 21:31
Steve - I was using iridium plugs when my engine failed (AND I AM NOT BLAMING THEM IN ANY WAY....) However, one of the possible scenarios is that the centre electrode will melt off in a detonation situation - reducing the risk of further damage. This has no change of happening with an iridium plug because the melting point of the electrode is too high. Obviously one should not be relying on the plug to fail and hence lessen the damage.
jimn~
I got my car running last week, for start it didnt want to start nor run well when cold, but perfect idle and run when hot..
After sorting out leaks and some other issues I got it to start and run well when tonight (hold on now everybody), had in my mind somewhere heard that someone had trouble starting when they had switched 2 of the contacts.. I switched 2 of the contacts, after studying them a bit closer I noticed that one of them looked twisted, the 2 contacts where those between the constant idle speed and/water temp, man I felt stupid.. :P
now running smoothly and waiting for a new wheelhub to safely secure the righthand front wheel for the first test drive, should arrive next week (from italy) :D
regards
Old Image of the engine
the white paint helped alot when looking for leaks :P
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-1745117.jpg
I still have one problem unsolved beside the hub I mentioned, it is the speedometer/tachogauge, there is a connection down by the gearbox underneath the batterytray, there are three cables and all are pulled out of the connector, the other three doesn?t have the colors accordingly!? I can take a photo of it someday, if that will help you helping me :)
The attached picture should help you ;)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6430/kppravodkesfiskes03.th.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/kppravodkesfiskes03.jpg/)
Oh Mindus you are my Hero of the day :D
That saves me a whole lot of work.
thx man
David
Hello again everybody, now the car has gotten the new hub mounted, and a testdrive in the snowy weather, went very well and felt GREAT after all hard work and troubles we?ve come across.
just wanted to know what you have for oilpressure on idle, just in case?
mine were about 2?ish anyhow, too low?
the generator may have to be replaced as well since my (battery)gauge is glowing a bit, I did measure it up, when turned of the battery showed 12.88ohm and on idle 13.30 with lights turned off and 12.94 when turned on!
any tips on where to get a new one?
thanks
David
Hello again everybody, now the car has gotten the new hub mounted, and a testdrive in the snowy weather, went very well and felt GREAT after all hard work and troubles we?ve come across.
just wanted to know what you have for oilpressure on idle, just in case?
mine were about 2?ish anyhow, too low?
thanks
David
Sounds OK. I have about 1 :redface: Glad it is going well :)
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-1781699.jpg
ok, no need to worry then :)
any tips of where to find a new generator, it barely charges what the lights are consuming!?
DO you have a Bosch agent you could contact?
There are plenty of small workshops doing generator repair, but the Magnetti Marelli generator is not easy to fix = expensive. Power Car sourced me a new one for around 5000 SKr.....
Magnetti Marelli
:redface: Thought it was a Bosch :doh:
thanks #84, I will contact them..
no worries jack, everyone remembers wrong sometimes :)
i belive your oil pressure is just fine
hi guys
are your oil pressures higher with cold engine, mine are!? :o
got my new side (146) skirts on the mail today, will post pictures soon :)
helped a friend with his 20" rims for his Audi S4 today, put them next to my car and my brothers, quite big :P
test in front of my brothers volvo?s (one 242 with Turbo engine from -75 and a 6cyl 960 from -96) as well as my Alfa..
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/16773.jpg
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/16774.jpg
http://www.cloverleaf4.co.uk/images/uploads/16775.jpg
hi guys
are your oil pressures higher with cold engine, mine are!? :o
Yes, that how it suppose to be. Oil pressure is always higher with cold engine/oil.
M.
ok, thanks, was not sure about it, that?s why I asked
jimnielsen
03-03-10, 19:10
Dave, what is the actual oil pressure measurement in bar a minute or so after you turn it on from cold? Here in Australia, where there is no chance of buying a new alternator, I would simply take it to an auto electrician and have it repaired. I can't believe all the snow!
jim.
We have about 1 meter of snow, unpacked! :p
It is also my job during the winter to get the roads free of it all :( (don?t know the word for my occupation in English though, hope you know what I mean)
when cold the pressure was between 4 and 5 bars, when hot between 1 and 2
arjunior45
04-03-10, 06:03
I believe that what is important is to have the oil pressure higher than 0,7 bar at idle with engine hot {90 degrees}.
Yes, when the weather is cold oil pressure is higher, so do not worry. I saw even 7 bars during winter - no snow though - after starting the engine, during warm up. But with engine hot, coolant at 90 degrees and oil at 85 degrees, at idle is always at 1 - 1,2 bar.
then the oilpressure is allright in my car, thanks for the info guys. :)
about my alternator the light don?t glow anymore, maybe repaired itself or some minor loose connection in the wires, anyhow my MOT is on tuesday so hold your thumbs for me will ya :)
Yesterday it passed the MOT with many hints of how good the job that had been done was. :)
Surprisingly the one testeng my car knew a little about them, telling me that it had the engine and driveline of a lancia delta integrale and so on..
looking forward to this summer with car-meets and trackdays up ahead
//David
That's good news, congrats.
Cheers,
Cristian.
And today I mounted the Xenonkits I had lying about, what do you think?
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-1795099.jpg
/David
Bright! :D Now you need to get little leds for the side lights.
yeah I know :P
I await them as we speak..
also did the bulbchange for the rear foglights so the hole bar looks as rearlights.. can post pics later
Here are some new info and pics of my car:
the things done that are new are not so many or big but still something, Silverstone frontsplitter (original) new 8,5mm race ignition leads, xenonkits in low/hi-beam and fogs as the pics posted before, a strutbar, some decals along the sides and new painted wheels 17", a T70C alarm and also got rid of all the little dents that were before so now spotless AND rust-free
also soon to come are coilovers and big brake-kits with braided lines and racing brake fluid..
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-2059262.jpg
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-2059255.jpg
http://www1.garaget.org/archive/53/52241/123447/123447-2054571.jpg
best regards
will update when more things happens
David
that is simply awesome! Needs a spoiler now :cool:
No, thats one item it does not need!
jimnielsen
29-09-10, 11:24
beautiful job david.. love that black paint job with the white wheels..
thanks everybody for the comments, really warms my heart that you like her :D
the front strutbar is going to be powder-coated white and thinking of having the uprated ARB (thats on order for the moment) painted as well later on, so no pics for the strut for now
regards
David
... the uprated ARB (thats on order for the moment) painted ...
David
Where did you order uprated ARB from?
I have a connection (not direct so there are a middlehand) with Whiteline, I have gotten the price 151Euro a piece but we can get a 10% discount if we order the last five that is, meaning a price of 136,70 Euro inc VAT..
NOTE TO ALL this is for the uprated REAR ARBs the Front are "no longer made/Sold Out"? (can this be accurate?) I was told.
If there are no interest in this I will order one for myself, but I have warned you guys there are not many left now :P
Regards
David
155.org did a group buy for both ARBs, I suspect Whiteline will make a batch if you get an order for ten, as they did.
But...the fronts don't fit Q4s afaik???
wrinx
I have read somewhere that there were a specialorder for the Q4 ones as well, but might be mistaken, are the rear really the same as on V6 or twinspark?
I've got a vague memory that there's something different...can't be sure though :?
Will check Eper when I have more time...
wrinx
What is the diameter for Whiteline rear ARB?
I have a Whiteline rear anti roll bar which is not even close to fit and Whiteline claims it is my fault since I got a Q4. Does it fit a Twins Spark? No, not even close. Did they offer me refund? No, not a chance.
So, be carefull.
And by the way, it is 22 mm :)
/A
Sounds like there are no alternative to Jimnielsen's reference in Australia...
Bolting the whiteline ARBs to your car is more than just a "lego job".
Whizzman:
I am aware of the massive work fitting new ARBs but needless to say the chassis need some help because of all the weight over the front wheels.. and now when the speed goes up Really quick you really need the handling I?m after to keep the car on (the) track.. Not even mentioning the stockbrakes that are almost useless.. (upgrade is on its way). :)
#84
I really would like to have a working sample, simple bolt on system to fit, which the whiteline doesn?t seem to be is that what you are saying?!
regards
David
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