Water Pump

[wrinx]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WATER-PUMP-TO-FIT-ALFA-155-2-0-TURBO-TIPO-2-0-16V_W0QQitemZ380100618811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?

wrinx

[AlfaJack]

Has anyone ever considered an electric water pump on this engine? It would free up a few horses and less likely to leak to buggery when it fails.

[jimnielsen]

I always used them on my last racecar (a giulietta) and never had a problem. Will put one on the Q4 if its pump fails....

[AlfaJack]

In my experience, when it fails it leaks :(

[wrinx]

Mine leaked too.

wrinx

[Evodelta]

Has anyone ever considered an electric water pump on this engine? It would free up a few horses and less likely to leak to buggery when it fails.

It's the way to go if you have what it takes, advantages:

No cavitation at high engine RPM.

Can be enabled to run on after engine shut down to prolong engine and turbo life.

Can run at fast speed when engine speed is low to ensure better cooling.

Basically it's just totally adaptable to be whatever you want.


OE water pump failure: Long periods of inactivity, old or insufficient antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor.

[Steve Webb]

So how easy is it to remove the mech. water pump from the system? Is it just a case of remove the internals and drive belt but leave the casing in place?

Got any recommendations for electrical pumps?

[Evodelta]

Basically yes, either remove the internals of the OE item or fab up a new part from a flange and a 90' pipe bend. Davies-Craig are good, although Nik is looking into another manufacturer (can't remember who!) There is all sorts on the market, even rad mounted pumps which go on the outlet.

[1NRO]

Bloody water pumps, beggers for driping. I've a policy that if the cam belt is disturbed the water pump should be changed. Too many times I tried doing just the belt and bearings only to find that what was fine before starts driping. My theory is that once the tension is released the bearing inside the water pump gives up. This causes me to think that as and when I get my finger out and sort an electric pump setup I'll have a billet block thats drilled for water passage but also holds the water pump pulley (unless I can source a shorter auxillary belt) so there's no chance of it leaking through the bearing.

I've given thought to many variations of doing it. One I looked into was just blanking off the water pump hole in the block and using the core plugs at the back of the block to introduce the water to the engine, one of the reasons a shorter auxillary belt would be nice. A twin feed electric pump would be nice for this method then an even introduction to the block would be possible (rather than offset to one side) Another thought that mills around in the gray matter is having an outlet back to the rad out of the head from inbetween the exhaust ports on each cylinder. Lots of wild thoughts going on! Anyway, back on topic. There's only one manufacturer that I know of that I would use for the electric pump. They do the rad mounted number Martin mentions, the one I have my eye on http://www.meziere.com/ps-1177-1145-wp36216.aspx

Maybe I share to many wild thoughts?!

[Steve Webb]

the one I have my eye on http://www.meziere.com/ps-1177-1145-wp36216.aspx

Maybe I share to many wild thoughts?!

55gpm, isn't that a little high? Mind you from the looks of the website they do drag racing kit!

[1NRO]

Thats a good point Steve, never thought too closely about volume being too much. Some research into the output of the standard pump needed I suppose. I'd imagine you'd be correct, take a bit of shifting 55g by the standard water pump even at high rpm. They do pumps of 20g and 35g too, something in the range will suitable.

[Steve Webb]

55 US Gal per min = 208 litres per min.

The Q4 cooling system = 9.1 litres.

Therefore that electric pump pumps the complete cooling system 22.8 times per minute or once every 2.6 seconds!!!

Might be a little over the top :eek:

[1NRO]

Hmm, even the 20gpm is shifting the entire capacity pretty fast.

20 USg = 75.71 litres / 9.1 = 8.3 times a minute = 7.2 to cycle

I'm thinking there must be a deliberate restriction to build pressure rather than just push it round at that speed. Anyway, I've sent them an enquiry as to how to size for a particular application. I'll report back with their advice.

[jimnielsen]

I've used the davis craig electric water pumps in race cars. They are simple and robust. The good thing is that you can mount them 'in-line' on a rubber radiator hose - so no extra weight for brackets. The rubber hose mounting also provides good vibration damping for the pump. Davis Craig has a control unit that costs about $250 to control the flow rate of the water. No one here uses this control unit in racecars. In my giulietta racecar we simply used a 13mm hole as a flow restrictor. In the picture (attached..) the electric water pump is in the lower radiator hose. We simply removed the impeller from the original belt driven water pump and welded up the hole!

jimn

[1NRO]

Ok, so I sent a question to Mezieres. Laid it on a bit! Not sure why the copy/paste has done that :redface:

I'm looking at you remote water pump with interest, I'm
unsure how to select the right size for my application. I'd like to ask for
your advice please. My engine is a 2000cc 4 cyl turbo with in the region of
500wbhp and is used on both for street driving and road race.
Regards,
Nik

The reply, which was a bit weak.

I suggest the WP336S pump
Thanks,
Jay Cason
Meziere Enterprises

So a chaser.

Thanks Jay,



How do you arrive at a flow rate of 55gpm? I was expecting one of the lower capacity pumps. Maybe I'm confused and thinking that's what the engine will circulate per minute or is that just pump flow rate and the volume the engine sees is restricted by the thermostat, head gasket etc?



Regards,



Nik

The reply, which is better.

You are right on every aspect. The gasket, t stat radiator all restrict the flow. The way I determined that was the amount of heat a typical turbo engine makes and the type of driving. The road racing is some of the toughest type of racing you can do,. That is why I suggest the highest flowing pump. No other pump made can cool that combination.
Thanks,
Jay