View Full Version : Camshaft timing ( tipo & thema ) with turbo pulleys
just wondering, and what I?ve been told , its just that:
for example, when chancing the belt, just take cams off and put new cams in, with turbo model pulleys and put timing marks on the right place ?
thats what been told to me ..
when want the last horses, put adjustable pulleys to the engine.
experience anyone ?
results, maybe .. ?
Fitting the Tipo cam to a Q4?
You'll need to use the 5-door inlet cam in your inlet, then move your current inlet to the exhaust. But, this needs a slot cutting in it for the cam pulley wheel.
The timing marks should be the same...I think if you retard the inlet by approximately 2-3 degrees you get a bit more power, but it needs setting up carefully.
Pretty sure this is right...someone will be along to correct if it's wrong :smile:
wrinx
well I have both tipo cams, why wouldnt those work ?
inlet cam --> inlet and exhaust to exhaust ?
of course need to do that little "mark" on the exhaust cam.
I mean it works on tipo NA
why not turbo ?
please explaine
I don't know the details but it's a well known modification to fit the way I described....I guess if you just fit the cams as standard then they will not be right for the turbo engine, whihc is why you need to move the inlet to exhaust to change the duration etc.
http://forum.berlinasportivo.org/showthread.php?t=1079&highlight=tipo
http://forum.berlinasportivo.org/showthread.php?t=883&highlight=tipo
http://forum.berlinasportivo.org/showthread.php?t=682&highlight=tipo
wrinx
I have known about the tipo inlet and original inlet to exhaust modification.
but here ( Finland ) one guy at least just put those both tipo cams in and said :
it has lost from the bottom, but has much more at higher rpm .
if I take my standard inlet cam to exhaust, what about the cam timing, should it still be good
just by putting those marks on right places ?
( and of course that mark on the standard inlet --> exhaust cam has to be done)
so with using tipo inlet and standard inlet to ex, we have :
10.1mm inlet / 8.6mm exhaust
tipo +tipo :
10.1mm / 10.1mm
am I right ?
of course if its better to use original and tipo cam together, I would like to do it, but have to know how to put all those together, without having date with pistons and valves ..
so if someone could explain, can I just put those cams there, what I want, and mark
as same when chancing the belt, and everything is OK ?
I will let you know dyno numbers at spring..
58mm compressor, 3" exhaust,custom exhaust manifold, big fmic, custom map, bigger injectors, tipo cams.. etc, etc..
I am sorry, but you are wasting your time with the Tipo cam, it really is a rubbish mod. Looking at the list of modifications you have planned it is the one which will fail to make you smile and cause you no end of trouble.
Fit a proper pair of turbo cams, not something intended for a naturally aspirated 1980s hatchback and do the job right first time.
what cams you sugest Evodelta?
but usually NA model cams are good for turbocars ( at least much better, than standard )
and, 80 century... well our cars engine is from there...
I know, that special cams is best option ( we have couple very good cam makers here )
and C & B makes good cams, and was it cat cams, that have also couple very good models for our cars...
its just that those I have.
maybe when going evo2 version on my car, then some "better cams"
one question : why trouble when using those?
what cams you sugest Evodelta?
I put some in the 'Parts For Sale' section a while ago. :smile:
but usually NA model cams are good for turbocars ( at least much better, than standard )
and, 80 century... well our cars engine is from there...
I know, that special cams is best option ( we have couple very good cam makers here )
and C & B makes good cams, and was it cat cams, that have also couple very good models for our cars...
its just that those I have.
maybe when going evo2 version on my car, then some "better cams"
one question : why trouble when using those?
I'm afraid that is wrong, N/A are no good for turbo cars, the duration and overlap is far too long, they steal power from the low end then make only a little more power at the top end and waste far too much fuel. Who would want a car that does this?
See if you can find someone who has used these Tipo cams with some good results, you won't.
Why look towards an Evolution of what you don't even have yet, when the technology and parts exist right now under your nose? Mapping the engine is not cheap, why not do it right first time?
Your engine may be from the 80s, but there is no need to use parts that are 20yrs out of date to put on it, technology has come a long long way since then.
engine mapping for me is 100e thats not too much.
well with thema NA cams we have here 425hp / 1.25bar car..
best results what I have seen with standard cams is 340hp / 1.4bar .
a little difference for me ....
85hp is maybe just a little more at top end, but for me thats very BIG difference.
I?m looking something around 400 / 1.4bar, so dont have to use so much overlap.
I know, that technology is going on all the time.
at the moment I dont have that much extra to buy C & B ...
but maybe I could chance those cams to be like C & B .. because here are very good tuners for the cams.
costs is around 200-250e .
There is much more to a car than a big power figure. I wouldn't want to own a 425bhp car that had nothing below 6000rpm and did 10mpg. Anyone can bolt on a huge turbo and force air into an engine, it wouldn't be very nice to drive though. It's old school technology and I personally don't agree with it.
I don't understand how you can get C&B at this price, maybe you should set up a group buy?
hmm maybe my English is bad..
I mean, that using other cams, and make them as C & B ones ...
and my goal is of course, that good usefull power .
I havent heard, that its so on/off, when using those cams...
you are the first one that says that.
what about with tipo inlet and oe inlet to exhaust ?
of course I can send those cams to tuner, and say what I want..
( maybe the best option )
do you have dynonumbers so I can see that those are only working +6000rpm
hmm and that 10mpg ?
are you sure ?
this is only my summer car, and not everyday car, but still that sounds bad..
arjunior45
31-10-08, 10:21
try this one : http://members.home.nl/base/Colombo_&_Bariani.htm
you will see the timing settings for TIPO inlet cam under Integrale 16v / TIPO INLETCAM. I believe it is 4 degrees retard for this cam {2 degrees at the crankshaft}, so you will need an adjustable vernier pulley - just for the inlet cam. You can use the oem inlet cam as exhust-outlet cam and you can use the oem pulley.
with proper ecu map {maybe the evocars one} you can have certainly more than +10 bhp.
A friend of mine using this setup {tipo inletcam and evocars chip} saw 270bhp at dino. Then, with 8:1 compression forget pistons, Evo1 turbine, grA headgasket, equal length exhaust manifold and decating the q4 with 3" tubes used he has more than 310bhp.
I believe that Evocars has right about 'modern' tecnology, but still I'm going to use this setup {Tipo inlet cam, grA head gasket and equal length exhaust manifold} and custom made ecu 4-maps bin in my everyday Q4. All I need is the spare time to 'deal' with these mods.
Nick
we have one guy here in Finland, who is ... well good with cars.
he have said :
when wanting something extra, go for thema/coupe NA cams...
if you want more power, then tipo cams, or some street cams..
I had 325hp with standard head, standard cams.
I want 400hp...
arjunior45
01-11-08, 17:19
@ Jarkko
you have 325 hp with standard head and standard cams - +135hp ??? What else did you do with your car-engine?
Mostly which clutch do you use? I'm very curious! With a 320 hp Evo2 we used to replace the clutch every weekend after having a Saturday evening ... ride!
Nick
I had standard clutch 2 years... no problems..at all
only 430nm of torque, and full boost around 4200rpm.. but now with smaller "turbo"
58mm compressor ; )
only...
and fwd car.. :(
3" exhaust, bigger fmic, bigger turbo, good mapping... standard head and injectors.. etc..
arjunior45
02-11-08, 08:11
fwd?!!! that's why your clutch does not suffer that much as for the 4wd. you just burn your tires.
400 hp won't be much for an everyday car?
arjunior45
02-11-08, 08:11
fwd?!!! that's why your clutch does not suffer that much as for the 4wd. you just burn your tires.
400 hp won't be much for an everyday car?
ups, I mean to say, that now I have FWd car ..
fiat coupe 16vt.
used to have alfa 155q4 with standard clutch and that power.
ok, I have been asking for several tuners about this, and YES I can use those like I said.
thema/coupe cams or tipo cams.
I will have those both soon, so have to test those.
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