Chipping my Q4 and waterspray question

[biggie_]

Hello,
I am going to left my car to the mechanic in order that he installs the Evocars chip i've bought.
Apart of it, i have other questions, and its about the waterspray system (my car is a series 1)... as you know i'm using the Q4 everiday, and for the moment the only upgrade i wanna apply to my car is the Evocars chip; no exhaust replace for the moment because my wyfe drives the Q4 too, and she don't wanna hear a "rally-sound" :cry:.
So... my questions are...
Do you think is necessary to "turn-on" the waterspray system on my conditions of use?
I will get some power with the system turned on?
I saw that the system puts water on the intercooler when the boost presure its over 0.7 bar, then with the chip upgrade it will be putting water on the intercooler too much, isn't it?
Thank you in advance, regards.:smile:

[Brul(tm)]

To bad you can't do the exhaust, this improves the handling so much!
Turbo spools much quicker and kicks in a bit earlier :cool:
I guess yours kicks in around 3500RPM, mine does at ~2800RPM.

The waterspray system isn't noticable, so turning it on doesn't give you a feeling when it's working. Although I think it will help a little bit to keep the temperature a bit lower. But you won't notice a performance boost. The only impact the evo car's chip has on the spray system.... you need to refill with water much quicker :biggrin: I thought the spray system is activated at 0,6 bar of pressure.

Greetings,
Marc

[RMB-Racing]

The waterspray system is for use in peakperformance situations.

Its not for use all the time! (You will simply run out of water to quickly...)

For example in a Quatermile race.

The only thing the waterspray system does, is to spray water on the IC, so the charged cool air gets cooler, and will provide the engine whit more air, and that will increase the power.

That of course depends on if your engine management is setup up to handle the extra amount of air, the IC will provide the engine.

[Steve Webb]

The way the standard waterspray system works isn't that good anyway, my car is a series 2 so didn't come with a waterspray, so I installed this one Intelligent Waterspray (http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527) more complicated but the theory behind how it works makes more sense.

Oh and make sure the bag is kept filled with water, apparently it is a pain to get it primed once it has run dry.

[Stuntz]

Flip switch ist the anwser :)

[AlfaJack]

Flip switch ist the anwser :)

Thats what I did, I just use it for track days :smile:

[Steve Webb]

I stuck an on-off switch in as well for the Autospeed kit, but also put in a small push button switch with which you can manually run the water pump, useful for completely soaking the intercooler when you want to cool down before switching off.

[Brul(tm)]

I stuck an on-off switch in as well for the Autospeed kit, but also put in a small push button switch with which you can manually run the water pump, useful for completely soaking the intercooler when you want to cool down before switching off.

This also what i have and use this way, only on the original spray system :smile:

Greetings,
Marc

[biggie_]

Flip switch ist the anwser :)

Great idea, I didn't fall down in it, thank you :smile:

Thanks to all for your opinions and advices ;)

If someday my wife changes his opinion... i'll change the exhaust system :biggrin:

[Q4Jan]

My car is not loud. It just sounds a bit dark and low. So having the exhaust done is possible without upsetting the misses.:smoke:

Look here for what i and marc have done, where marc (brul) chooses to be loud and i choose to be pretty quiet.
Just the different size of the rear silencer.

http://forum.berlinasportivo.org/showthread.php?t=962

Much better for the breating of the engine and almost as expensive as a new Q4 exhaust.

[Stuntz]

My has a strait exhaust decated and it sounds deep but not lowd but when the turbo kiks in it makes a sound like an angry snake at 130 dB :)

[biggie_]

Thanks a lot for the link Q4Jan ;) I was thinking that i have to remove all the exhaust system to notice some improvement of performance... Did you notice improvement even with the cats on?

130 DB Stuntz? O M G! ufffff it could be too much for my wife... if i wanna do that probably the first step i have to take is to buy another car for my wife, and then i'll could tune-up my Q4 :biggrin:

[Stuntz]

no its not that loud :) if your wife dosent floor the gas pedal it sounds normal.When my is boosting full whit chip by wolf666 it does around 1.35 bar then it makes sounds from hell pedal to the metal if i drive it normaly then no loud sounds :)

[Q4Jan]

Thanks a lot for the link Q4Jan ;) I was thinking that i have to remove all the exhaust system to notice some improvement of performance... Did you notice improvement even with the cats on?

You are welcome. :cool:
Definately improvement!
Car is much more alive than with the stock exhaust.
And yes all 3 cats are in place still.
So i still pass any test. Got a comment of the garage i did my apk/mot last time as they were surpised how clean the car is on their machine. Plus i work at night and can drive home without waking the neighbours.:tasty:
But if i drive to a friends house they know i am comming because of the destinctive sound the car makes. :cool:

I still am not sure if i want to remove the first cat, but this setup is way better than stock.

I also have a plot of a dyno but those numbers are a bit positive i guess. (264hp/408Nm) I do know that in the days when the squadra chips were going in the Q4's in the Netherlands mine was one if not the fastest around.
(got comments of other Q4 owners with chips that mine felt a bit faster.)

:eek::eek:
One thing you definately should add is a boost gauge. If anything is wrongly connected or boost is going to high you will know.
One time after a garage visit some hoses were almost correct connected wich let to an unlimited boost. The gauge made me return to the garage before i left the street, because it went of the scale!
It could save you lots of money one time.:doh:

[Brul(tm)]

I still am not sure if i want to remove the first cat, but this setup is way better than stock.


There is absolutly no problem with MOT. The first cat is removed, I only have the two right next to each other. Of course, the 4-way gas test is done when the engine is on working temperature. I almost certain that if there is a problem with the CO2 emission, there is to much clearance on the valves. This is what I experienced last year. The previous two MOT test, I started to have difficulty the pass the CO2 test. So after adjusting the valve clearance in march 2007 I passed MOT without any difficulty in september 2007 (this is without the first cat, removed that in july 2007). So this year won't be a problem at all.

Removing this cat doesn't give the great feeling you get, changing the exhaust we did with the sollution/design from EPS Jan. That is the best improofment an gives you the greatest feeling you reached on the engine performance/response, the engine really starts to come alive and responds much better on the throtle!!
Maybe a custom map from Squadra will do more/better on the engine response without the first cat? I don't know.

It does have a noticible effect on the sound! It gets a bit louder! I also believe a bit darker and deeper/heavier :smoke:

Greetings,
Marc

[biggie_]

Thanks for your advices and experiences mates, i'm learning a lot from you :smile:

Q4Jan, ummmm then it seems like your exhaust system would be for me the best solution, especially if how was you say i would notice more performances, good news for me hehe ; just a question, can you say me how much expensive will be that? ;)

Ah, the boost gauge is already installed on my car :smile:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4848/16012008558yr1.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16012008558yr1.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1585/16012008554au6.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16012008554au6.jpg)

[Q4Jan]

Nice to have a boost meter.
I think i payed in guilders.(not euros yet) some years ago.
And it was about 700 euro i believe. Things did get more expensive after that. And this depends on what your local exhaust welder wants.

You should ask them about their price i guess.

[biggie_]

700 Euros... WTF... now i can't do it; but for sure will be the next upgrade i done on my Q4 hehe :tasty:

Thanks for all the information mate ;)

[biggie_]

Hello to all, forgive me for not writing very much in the forum, but i'm very busy at job, i have to work very hard to pay the petrol consumption of the car hehe :biggrin:

After this little joke ;) ... i have one question...it's about the fuel pressure with the Evocars chip installed (i have to say that i have a "copy"); when i bought the chip it comes with an sticky that said: "235 hp/290 Nm" and "fuel 2.5 bar". So my mechanic installed it with these instructions... At the moment everything on the engine seems ok, the difference of performances is really impressive, but I'm not sure of the fuel presure because i see that for the Delta Hpe is recommended to put the fuel pressure to 3 bar... what do you think about it? I put the fuel pressure to 3 bar for more security?

Regards ;)

[biggie_]

No advice about it? :(

[Stuntz]

if the chip says lift up to 3.0 do that i have done it on my chip
but my friend drives it on 2.5 bar whit no problem.

[wrinx]

I guess your friend might not be getting the full benefit of the chip as it could be running lean???

wrinx

[Stuntz]

:) has been tested at 2.5bar as 3.0 is for safety this is what the maker of the chip said to me.

[biggie_]

Thank you for the opinions m8s ;)

I have this doubt because since i put on the chip i remember this page http://www.evocars.com/acatalog/EPROM_Alfa_Romeo.html where you can see that for the 155 Q4's chip don't say nothing about the fuel pressure, and on these other pages for the Lancia Delta Hpe http://www.evocars.com/acatalog/EPROM_Lancia.html and Fiat Coupe 16v turbo http://www.evocars.com/acatalog/EPROM_Fiat.html engine is recommended to lift up the fuel pressure to 3 bar, do not we share the same engine? :confused:

[Evodelta]

The only way to be certain is to check your AFR, anything else and you are just playing a dangerous guessing game.

I think that standard fuel pressure is 3bar no?

There are also different ways to set it, going by memory the usual way is ign on, engine not running, or engine running, vac pipe from FPR disconnected.

[Stuntz]

standard pressure is 2.5 bar masured vacuum hose of engine ideling!

[Evodelta]

Thanks for clarification, I thought it needed mentioning.

2.5 you say? Do you think my Evo 2 was the same when standard? It's chipped and reads 3 bar now and I was led to believe it always was, but not so sure.

[biggie_]

Yes the standard pressure is 2.5bar , then for your commentaries i see that the best recommendation will be to raise it to 3 bars, isn't it? :smile:

[Evodelta]

"The only way to be certain is to check your AFR, anything else and you are just playing a dangerous guessing game."

[biggie_]

Uuuuups sorry Evodelta, It's true, you said it before, but I have a problem, what is the AFR? excuse me for my ignorance :doh:

[AlfaJack]

I believe it is Air Fuel Ratio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio